August, 2001

August, 2001

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001

From: Cheryl & Bill Rathborne <wfrcar@acncanada.net>

To: k-12 SD list <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

CC: Alan Gross & Jane Townsend <sunspots@bonairelive.com>

Subject: An "outreach challenge" for SD fans

To: K-12 List;

A brief introduction is in order. I am Bill Rathborne of London, Ontario, Canada. I have been lurking on the K-12 list for about a year. Interested in SD, but not a practitioner.

I wrote to the staff of the after school program at Jong Bonaire http://www.jongbonaire.org/01a_index.html

on the Netherlands Antilles Island of Bonaire. (Part of the Aruba, Curaco, Bonaire chain just north of Venezuela.)

It is an excellent initiative on this small island with a population of only 14,000. It appeared to me that SD and in particular the goals of the SDED initiative would be an suitable fit with the goals of the Jong Bonaire program.

The note below was sent to me from Jane Townsend, on of the center's staff.

As she notes the challenge may be significant, but the payoffs may also represent a major opportunity in terms of the educational/learning advantages offered by SD/ST education.

I am sure that Jane would greatly appreciate any suggestions and advice from any of you who really do use SD/ST in the classroom. Also, the resources available to them on Bonaire are limited so if anyone thinks a visit to the best little island in the Caribbean, and the best scuba diving on the globe, would be a good, I'm also sure that Jane and co. would be delighted to greet you.

Yours truly,

Bill Rathborne

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Re: Systems Dynamics

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001

From: Alan Gross & Jane Townsend <sunspots@bonairelive.com>

To: <wfrcar@acncanada.net>

From what we have read now, the whole approach is sincerely needed down here for the entire community. The school system is Dutch and tends to teach by "rote memory." It does not encourage asking questions and what you describe would be great.

I have been trying to teach some of the kids to do the newspaper and getting

them to just think up three questions to ask is hard. Forget getting them

to ask the questions. They are very shy and not trained to ask.

Do you know if any modules or programs exist in the area of social skills or

issues, which would be easier for our group to implement. Of course we

would need to start with the staff because many of them do not know how to

think through problems or tasks.

Specifically we were thinking about the following topics:

conflict management

discrimination issues

sexuality issues

issues concerning drugs or other problem behaviors

Let us know if you think there is any thing available and someone who could

teach it very simply, because English is their third or fourth language.

Thanks again for all your interest and help on this. We think Bonaire and

the youth center could be a great "test site" because the specific learning

problem is universal and it is a small, contained location that would be

easy to measure results over time.

Regards,

Jane Townsend

http://www.jongbonaire.org/01a_index.html

-------------

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001

From: Raul Dorfman <rauldorfman@operamail.com>

To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

Subject Sistemandi: a semantic network of sensomory games: An "outreach challenge" for SD fans

Dear k-12sd List (Bill Rathbone, Jane Townsend)

I have the experience of using a system of games, as an introduction to system dynamics and systemic approach to school, educational system and technology

and community issues.

I have experienced these games and related hands on "From Kindergarten to Information Systems" seminars, for teachers and researchers in many developing

countries including Venezuela, Peru, Chile, Uruguay,Argentina and Colombia.

Some of these seminars, more than twenty five, were sponsored and funded by UNESCO and local educational institutions. We also used the museum as a

"public class room" for social awareness, as a first step and blending with projects using computers and related software.

I had the opportunity of presenting the material and techniques invited by the USA Academy of Sciences. The methodology is transparent to language and it can be applied on teachers and pupils.

If these activities are of your interest, I will be very glad in helping with your projects.

Cordially yours

Raul Dorfman

rauldorfman@operamail.com

---------

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001

From: Niall Palfreyman <niall.palfreyman@fh-weihenstephan.de>

To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

Subject: Skills versus facts

Hi,

I have just completed my first year as professor of bioinformatics at

Weihenstephan University in Germany. This is the first year of the

course, so I've spent most of my time teaching first-year mathematics,

physics and informatics, and I have been stunned by the extent to which

the students seem to think that education consists in learning facts,

rather than learning skills. They sit and memorise facts, forgetting to

practise their skills in problem-solving (no matter how much I try to

make them understand the importance of working through the exercise I

give them). They then gasp in dismay at finding they are required to

actually think in an exam, rather than just regurgitate information.

I suppose looking back that I shouldn't really be surprised. First off,

I think I was pretty much the same as a student. Secondly, I know I have

long been shocked and dismayed at the bookshelves in the computer

section of bookshops. Once upon a time these were interesting sections

offering many new insights into ways of thinking about problem-solving,

but over the last years they have become more and more a boring

collection of facts about products like WordPerfect Version ?.??, Excel

Version ?.??, VisualStudio Version ?.?? and so on.

So this is my big insight at the end of the first year: my students are

too stuck on facts, and I need to teach them to value skills. To this

end I'm now in the process of rewriting my first-year maths course

around SD/ST, and as I do this I'd be grateful for any insights anyone

can offer me. In particular the following questions occur to me:

1. Is this dichotomy facts/skills a well-known one that I've missed?

2. Do there already exist well-tried means of teaching students to focus

on skills rather than facts (especially in mathematics)?

3. Does anyone have specific experience of using SD to address this

issue?

4. I see a major problem as being to teach students to value skills

whilst at the same time preparing them to compete in a world which

values facts. Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences about

reconciling these two possibly conflicting aims?

Thanks,

Niall Palfreyman.

--------------

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001

From: "RICHARD TURNOCK" <Richard_Turnock@pgn.com>

To: <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

Subject: Skills vs Facts

Paradox - Teachers work in a structure pressured to keep a balance between opposites.

· To socialize them to be obedient, yet to teach them to be critical thinkers and innovators.

· To stress basic skills but also encourage creativity and higher-order skill thinking.

· To cultivate cooperation, yet to teach students to compete with one another in school and later in life.

· To pass on the academic knowledge that the past has to offer, yet also to teach marketable and practical skills.

· To focus on the academic "basics" yet to permit a wide range in choice of courses.

Source: Micah Fierstein, The Change Institute

RICHARD TURNOCK

------------

From: "John Gunkler" <jgunkler@sprintmail.com>

To: "k-12sd" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

Subject: Skills versus facts

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001

Niall asks:

4. I see a major problem as being to teach students to value skills

whilst at the same time preparing them to compete in a world which

values facts. Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences about

reconciling these two possibly conflicting aims?<<

I would like to suggest that your data, Niall, does not support the

conclusion that the world "values" facts more than problem-solving/thinking

skills. My own experience is quite the opposite. I might rather speculate

that students memorize facts rather than work on problem-solving skills for

such reasons as:

1. They have learned how to memorize facts but haven't been taught (much)

how to improve thinking skills.

2. It is easier to memorize facts than to think.

3. Previous (poor) schooling has rewarded them for memorizing facts --

probably because their teachers found it easier to grade knowledge than

skills.

Out in the "real world," however, I find that people actually soon come to

value problem-solving skills much more than knowledge of facts. I look at

who gets promoted in management positions in business and it is almost

invariably those who are quickest to recognize and solve problems. In fact,

I believe business over-emphasizes speedy problem solving (I call it the

"quick draw" approach to problems, also known as "see a bug and step on

it.") This is one of the major reasons why business needs SD -- to overcome

the propensity to overvalue quick answers and solutions.

John W. Gunkler

jgunkler@sprintmail.com

----------------

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001

From: Cheryl & Bill Rathborne <wfrcar@acncanada.net>

To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

Subject: Skills versus facts

K-12 List,

Some comments from my son, Tom. A computer/internet person who took a minor in philosophy during his undergraduate program. A recent escapee from the prevailing educational institutions.

Perhaps the SD/ST approach and _interesting_ challenges in designing SD education can provide an equally effective alternative to costly robotics projects?

BTW - I recently sent an e-mail to the Ontario education "think tank" - OISE (Ontario Institute for Studies in Education), The Ontario Ministry of Education (program development), and our local school board Trustees (Thames Valley) to ask if there had been any consideration given to SD/ST education. A few weeks have passed - NADA, Ziltch. (I'm assuming they are either all on vacation or doing extensive research before they get back to me!! :-) )

Cheers,

Bill

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Skills versus facts]

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:41:27 -0400

From: Tom Rathborne <tomr@aceldama.com>

To: Cheryl & Bill Rathborne <wfrcar@acncanada.net>

On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 07:41:47PM -0400, Cheryl & Bill Rathborne wrote:

Tough year for a new teacher!!

Indeed.

Feel free to pass my response on if you think it would help ->

4. I see a major problem as being to teach students to value skills

whilst at the same time preparing them to compete in a world which

values facts. Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences about

reconciling these two possibly conflicting aims?

This is the key. These students are _already_ bereft of skills because

their world is so well-managed for them. Once kids can dress and clean

themselves they are sent out into the world to acquire facts. Few of

them have ever been in a situation more stressful than not knowing the

answer to a "trivia" question on a school test. Few of them have ever

had to think on their feet for more than a few seconds and frankly

even the most invigorating school environment cannot offer genuine

crisis.

Look into FIRST Robotics - http://www.usfirst.org/ - that's one of the

few worthwhile large-scale things for high school students nowadays.

They have 6 weeks to design a rather large remote-controlled robot to

perform multiple complex tasks. Then they bring all their robots to

one place and cooperate on performing those tasks as well as possible.

It's pretty amazing.

The world may value facts but it requires skills. Skills are acquired

under pressure - the pressure of an _interesting_ goal, not

necessarily the intrinsic acheivement of good marks or a school

graduation.

Giving students interesting goals which require them to think

creatively and (as a side-effect) learn the material being taught is

left as an exercise for the reader.

How about "physics and informatics island" where they will starve to

death unless they can use Hooke's law and Mathematica to get coconuts?

Cheers,

Tom Rathborne

tomr@aceldama.com http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/

-----------------

Subject: Skills versus facts

To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

From: "Patrick Leighton" <pleighton@edc.org>

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001

The dichotomy between facts and skills has roots going back to Rousseau,

but has been the major curriculum paradigm in American education for about

a century. You can find it in almost any article, book or conference that

addresses CURRICULUM issues - address the question of "WHAT are students to

know and be able to do at the end of the course of study that they did not

know or could not do at the beginning?" As you read or listen to such

expositions, ask yourself, "How many categories of learning outcomes does

this person assume there are?" Almost inevitably, it comes down to the two

of content and process, fact and skill, declarative and operational

knowledge, etc, etc. In terms of curriculum theory and modeling (NOT

instruction or assessment), there has been little that has changed or added

to this paradigm for decades.

I would propose a thesis: Over the past 50 years, (American) education has

made immense strides in developing and implementing INSTRUCTIONAL models,

strategies, and techniques, from cooperative learning, to inquiry-based

learning, to project learning etc. Over the past couple decades education

has also made immense strides in developing and implementing assessment

innovations, from portfolios to rubrics to formative assessment techniques

etc. Yet with all of this innovation the improvements in student learning

are incremental at best. it doesn't seem to matter at which scale or which

population you measure. I work for a national curriculum developer that

has spearheaded much of the American development of inquiry teaching in

science, and we can find little if any evidence for these programs

improving student learning. Yet they SHOULD. The thesis is that the

improvements in instruction and assessment practices are stymied by a lack

of improvement in curriculum. A chain is only as strong as its weakest

link.

As long as curriculum is thought of as two-dimensional we will never break

out of the problem. I suggest that as long as you think of your students'

learning as being in one of two categories of skills and facts, then you

will have a very difficult time teaching them problem solving and critical

thinking. The alternative is to think in three dimensions: learning

outcomes can be described in three categories of transferable concepts,

specific facts, and skills/processes. Transferable concepts are those

cognitive, coherent, unitary mental constructs that we learn in one context

but that can be transferred to seemingly different contexts, topics,

phenomena etc. SD is so powerful a curriculum because it places at front

and center a package of transferable concepts that can be used widely for

flexible problem solving - it is set up as a 3-D curriculum in that it

clearly defines the transferable concept(s), it combines these with a

myriad of different specific situations and problems.

Once you start thinking 3-D, you'll find some interesting relationships

among the three. For example, every one of the higher thinking processes

(Bloom's upper end + all its variations) can be objectively defined as some

manner of combining a transferable concept with a specific context for the

purpose of answering a question. So if you want to foster problem solving,

you must have a curriculum structure in which students are learning to

transfer knowledge (i.e. there is a clear distinction between the

transferable concepts and the specific context of facts and information.)

You will also find that if you collapse the 3-D back to 2-D, that the

"facts" of "content" side is a jumbled mixture of facts and concepts,

including transferable concepts. If such undifferentiated content is,

using excellent instructional technique, combined with all sorts of

"do-ing" and skill-building, then a low ceiling appears: only low-level

skills (not higher-order processes) will be the likely outcome. Students

can even generate excellent comprehension, but excellent comprehension is

not creative, flexible, inquiry-based problem solving or critical thinking.

You can try mightily as an educator to get your students to problem solve,

but as long as your curriculum is set up as 2-D, you will expend enormous

effort doing so and only a small minority of your students will probably

succeed.

If you are teaching mathematics, you have to ask yourself, What are the

basic, transferable concepts of math that would help address a wide variety

of real-world questions (rather than a large number of questions at the end

of the chapters in the math text)? If you're interested, I have been

working for some years in science as well as math, English, and Social

Studies/History on constructing structures of transferable concepts and

curriculum models that follow a 3-D pattern.

Patrick Leighton

----------------

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:19:44 -0400

From: Raul Dorfman <rauldorfman@operamail.com>

To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>, niall.palfreyman@fh-weihenstephan.de

Subject: Skills versus facts

Dear Niall Palfreyman:

I have been using Sistemandi (r) a structured semantic network of games with

a corresponding sytem concepts semantic network. (These games can be used for

fun and as a first stage toward SD)

I have experiences using these games in the elementary and at the university.

They are very useful to teach system analysis and sythesis, as well as

integration, differentation and control.

I offer a seminar in three possibilities: introductory: 2hours, basic 8 hours

and project oriented 20 hours.

I will be glad in exploring with you the potential of using my methodology,

to teach the necessary skills to use the facts and "know how" in real systems

problem solving, and educational project planning.

Best regards

Raul Dorfman, P. Eng.

rauldorfman@operamail.com

------------------------------------------------------------

From: Heiko.Gebauer@unisg.ch

Subject: Question

To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001

Hallo,

my name is Heiko Gebauer. I'm a research associate at the University of St

Gallen. At the moment, I'm working on my thesis (dissertation).

I try to build a system dynamics model that helps managers to understand

the problems during the commerzialisation of industrial services.

Now I'm searching for three kinds of information.

First, are there any conferences or journals where I can publish my recent

results? Which would you recommend?

Second, are there any models you know that deal with services (like service

strategy ...)

Third, are there any other models that can help as an example for: how to

build a system dynamics model?

Thank you very much for your feedback

Best Regards

Heiko

------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001

To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

From: Eileen Riley <rileye1@massed.net>

Subject: Skills versus facts

Patrick,

I like this way of integrating systems into familiar learning terms; I think however, "systems" also brings in the idea of constant change,i.e. "dynamics," and interdependency. Where or how do you account for that? To me the synthesis of what you have said is: 3D "three dimensions: . . . . . transferable concepts, specific facts, and skills/processes." "Transferable concepts" is critical in developing life-long learning capabilities, with the explosion of facts and the skills/processes (many new) that are needed to utilize them. Many educators use interdisciplinary curriculum which can result in transferable concepts. Would be interested to hear your comments, or see a curriculum unit that demonstrates your 3D approach.

Regards,

Eileen Riley

Waters Systems Grant Site Coordinator

Carlisle Public Schools

Carlisle, MA