November 2000

From: "Gene Stamell" <gstamell@hotmail.com>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: introduction
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000

I'm glad to join this systems group.
My name is Gene Stamell. I teach 3rd grade in Carlisle Public School. Our sd
program is headed up by Al Ticotsky and Rob Quaden.
My interest is in integrating sd tools (botg's for now, but I hope to use
causal loops too) into various areas of the grade 3 curriculum. I've made
fairly extensive use of botg's in math and reading,and would like more
ideas.

---------------

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Khalid Saeed <saeed@WPI.EDU>
Subject: faculty openings at WPI

Dear colleagues,
Please apply if following openings interest you, or recommend to others who
might be interests.
Khalid

Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Social Science and Policy Studies Department
Tenure Track Faculty Openings
The Social Science and Policy Studies (SSPS) Department at WPI announces
two tenure track faculty position in Economics/System Dynamics and
Psychology/System Dynamics.
1. Economics/System Dynamics
The selected candidate will teach undergraduate courses in introductory
economic theory, system dynamics and one or more of the following elective
courses: international economics, development economics,
environmental/ecological economics and public finance. The selected
candidate will also have the opportunity to develop new economics or system
dynamics courses related to their interests. A candidate should have a
Ph.D. in economics with a strong interest in system dynamics, or a Ph.D. in
an equivalent area. The ideal candidate will have research and teaching
promise in integrating an area of economics with system dynamics.
2. Psychology/System Dynamics
The selected candidate will teach undergraduate courses in psychology and
system dynamics. The psychology courses will include social or cognitive
psychology and one or more of the following elective courses: educational
psychology, judgment/decision making, environmental problems and human
behavior. The selected candidate will also have the opportunity to develop
new psychology or system dynamics courses related to their interests. A
candidate should have a Ph.D. in psychology or equivalent area (e.g.,
education, judgment/decision making, organizational science). The ideal
candidate will have research and teaching promise in an area interfacing
psychology and system dynamics (e.g., dynamic decision making, group model
building, assessment of learning about complex systems, human/computer
interface design).
The SSPS Department at WPI has multidisciplinary faculty offering majors in
economics, system dynamics, technology and society and environmental
policy. The Department also offers service courses in the social sciences
Institute-wide. Interest in system dynamics as a research and teaching
methodology is shared by a majority of faculty members in the department,
which is also the first in the world to offer a B.S. in system dynamics.
Applications with vita and at least three references should be sent to the
following address by December 1, 2000, electronically or by mail or fax:

Professor Khalid Saeed
Department Head
Social Science and Policy Studies
W.P.I.
100 Institute Rd.
Worcester, MA 01609
Phone: 508-831-5296, FAX: 508-831-5896
Email: saeed@wpi.edu

WPI is a leading private university of engineering and applied sciences
located in Worcester, MA and is an equal opportunity affirmative action
employer.
_____________________________________
Khalid Saeed
Professor and Department Head
Social Science and Policy Studies
W. P. I., 100 Institute Road
Worcester, MA 01609, USA
Ph: 508-831-5563; fax: 508-831-5896
email: saeed@wpi.edu
SSPS Dept: http://www.wpi.edu/+SSPS

----------------

From: "McGinnis, Martha" <MMcGinni@colpipe.com>
To: "'k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu'" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: System Dynamics in Elementary Education
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000

---------------

Moderator's note: Everybody, please identify yourself at the end of each
message much as Dan did below.
Thanks!
----------------------------------
From: DPetrino@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

In my case I wanted to extend learning beyond Baldridge criteria and get into
the root basics of the decision making process for both groups and
individuals. In my classes (Technology Education) problem solving is the
central theme and being better able to convey methods to solve problems is a
natural magnet. Plus, I have a 14 year old son and an 11 year old daughter
and I figure no harm if they start to grasp and understand these concepts at
an early age.

Dan Petrino
Dixie M. Hollins High School
Pinellas County, Florida

-------------------

From: "Moore, John" <MOORE@crms.dade.k12.fl.us>
To: "'k-12sd'" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: System Dynamics in Elementary Education
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000

Hello Martha,
I am a principal of a middle school in South Florida. We have worked with
learning organization concept for almost 8 years. Briefly, here are some
suggestions to consider:
1. The five learning disciplines are areas of long term study. They may be
used a "theme" to catch people interests, but with or without a theme,
efforts to use the disciplines to impact people's thinking and relationships
is the key to quality outcomes.
2. Guide your faculty to "personal mastery" with a focus on the systemic
structure of their subject matter and teaching/learning methods.
3. Infuse processes that enable people to share ideas and solve problems
together. Team Learning focused on best teaching/learning methods brings
people together and improves instructipnal processes.
Good luck

-------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000
From: Harry Forster <hforster@strato.net>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?

I find your application and problem very interesting. Unfortunately I am not a
geographer so I do not fully understand what you mean when you say "this model
lacks the spatial dimension which is essential for a geographer. ." It
appears
that you see this as an analysis problem of migrations between different sub
populations. This is then a mobility problem similar to those in Forrester's
Urban Dynamics. His figure 2-4 shows housing migration and population
migrations. These may serve as outlines to a solution to your problem.
[Thanks again Lees]

Harry Forster
k-12sd wrote:
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:00:58 +0200
> To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
> From: Anne-Marie Meyer <marie@lorraine.u-strasbg.fr>
> Subject: How did YOU get interested?
>
> I'm doctoral student at the Institut of Geography of Strasbourg in France.
> My work consist of an attempt in modelling the social organisation of the
> town of Hamburg, so I became interested in system dynamics as a tool for
> connecting the different components of the social organisation.
> But this model lacks the spatial dimension wich is essential for a
> geographer. I'm now trying to find a solution to this problem, maybe by
> using spatial interaction models, in order to redistribute the population
> who immigrates between the different districts of my study area.
> I would be very glad to know if somebody had work or ideas on this problem
> of the connection between system dynamics and spatial distribution.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>Anne-Marie Meyer

------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000
From: Harry Forster <hforster@strato.net>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?

I found your response very interesting and I have a few questions if you do not
mind. First I have made some deductive assumptions that I would like you to
comment on.
1 You are working in a rather large high school.
2 It is apparently an affluent community with parental involvement.
3 Your use of SD is to analyze data that you collect rather than teaching it
as part of a course.
Are you having the students use SD and if so how? Do they construct models or
are they given models? Do they use them in qualitative or quantitative ways?
[Lees: Good question. You stimulated some interest responses. Enjoying it.]

Harry Forster

k-12sd wrote:
> From: Patzito1@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:14:04 EST
> Subject: Re: How did YOU get interested?
> To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
>
> Greetings,
>
> My initial intro to SD came as I was searching for a way to turn soft skills
> into hard data in order to validate the communication and relationship skills
> students were learning in their family and consumer sciences classes. While
> we knew these were valuable skills, we also knew they were not cherished at
> the level of math and science by administrators and parents. Our first
> attempt to generate data was a "reverse report card" in which we asked
> parents to rate whether they saw a transfer of these classroom skills to the
> home and family environment. With this data, we were able to generate charts
> and graphs showing student achievement of these skills. Eventually, students
> learned to chart their BOT graphs and reflect on what they were learning.
>
> Once we were able to aggregate data from 11 teachers (the entire department
> focused on the skill of "self-discipline") showing beginning and ending
> results--and created charts and graphs to show this data--we were able to get
> the attention of the board and administration--not to mention the parents who
> were blown away at the level of feedback we were requesting. An unintended
> consequence of this process was that parents who had been starved for any
> method of two-way communication with the school, especially at the high
> school level, wrote wonderful, supportive notes and comments on the value of
> what their kids were learning.
>
> Since the successful launch of the above initiative (3 yrs. of data) we are
> moving on to delineate "nurturing" as the core of the discipline. Talk about
> an affective concept. Our draft rubric lists criteria such as: listening,
> respecting, manging oneself, reflecting and mentoring. We know we have our
> work cut out for us, but we also believe that with SD we have the tools to
> help validate our work.
>
> Pat Zito
> Education Consultant
> 1300 Wintergreen Lane
> Fairview, PA 16415
> 814-474-2083

-----------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000
From: Harry Forster <hforster@strato.net>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Reply to Introduction

Your problem is one that I have thought about for some time now; how to put SD
into primary grades. It is allied with a response that I am considering
to the
thread on standards and assessment. My first question is how do you
perceive SD
in first and second grade? Do you see this as a tool or manipulative that
assists you in developing another educational objective or is SD the primary
skill that you want to teach?

Harry Forster

k-12sd wrote:
> From: Irishtmc@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:24:18 EST
> Subject: Introduction
>
> I am an elementary school teacher in Tacoma, WA I am teaching first
> grade this year and will 'loop' with those students to second grade next
> year.
> I am also a student of the Lesley University's Master's in Teaching
> program. The focus of the master's program is "Technology in Education." My
> current coursework for that program focuses on Microworlds, Models and
> Simulations. I have spent numerous hourse working thorough the materials and
> references provided by my instructor, and searching the net for ideas, but
> continue to have extreme difficulty understanding how to make the systems
> model work in my classroom.
> In my surfing, I came across the url for this group, and decided to
> subscribe so that I could ask for advice from folks who obviously have a
> better grasp on the subject material than I... Any hints, tips, advice,
> suggestions, innuendos, etc., on how I can begin to make heads or tails of
> the concepts involved in systems dynamics, and/or how I can actually apply it
> in my classroom, would be greatly appreciated.
> By way of background, this past week-end we investigated STELLA and
> Microworlds programs, but they seemed so technical and abstract when I tried
> to plug them into my curriculum that I couldn't find a single way to make a
> credible connection. Thank you in advance for any help you are willing to
> supply.
>
> Regards,
>
> Terry McCarthy
> Fircrest, WA
>
----------------

From: Patzito1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

Greetings,
My initial intro to SD came as I was searching for a way to turn soft skills
into hard data in order to validate the communication and relationship skills
students were learning in their family and consumer sciences classes. While
we knew these were valuable skills, we also knew they were not cherished at
the level of math and science by administrators and parents. Our first
attempt to generate data was a "reverse report card" in which we asked
parents to rate whether they saw a transfer of these classroom skills to the
home and family environment. With this data, we were able to generate charts
and graphs showing student achievement of these skills. Eventually, students
learned to chart their BOT graphs and reflect on what they were learning.
Once we were able to aggregate data from 11 teachers (the entire department
focused on the skill of "self-discipline") showing beginning and ending
results--and created charts and graphs to show this data--we were able to get
the attention of the board and administration--not to mention the parents who
were blown away at the level of feedback we were requesting. An unintended
consequence of this process was that parents who had been starved for any
method of two-way communication with the school, especially at the high
school level, wrote wonderful, supportive notes and comments on the value of
what their kids were learning.
Since the successful launch of the above initiative (3 yrs. of data) we are
moving on to delineate "nurturing" as the core of the discipline. Talk about
an affective concept. Our draft rubric lists criteria such as: listening,
respecting, manging oneself, reflecting and mentoring. We know we have our
work cut out for us, but we also believe that with SD we have the tools to
help validate our work.

Pat Zito
Education Consultant
1300 Wintergreen Lane
Fairview, PA 16415
814-474-2083

--------------

From: EVScott7@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

> We would like to know how you got interested ("fell for") system dynamics.

In 1978, when my first daughter was 7 months old, I took a week-long
parenting education program at The Institutes for the Achievement of Human
Potential in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I learned that the successful
development of the whole child is greatly aided by parents' understanding of
the dynamics of a system. I have relentlessly pursued a better understanding
of systems dynamics ever since.
This list-serve has been a blessing.
Elane V. Scott
APT & Partnership, Assoc.
Education Marketing and Parent Coaching
(Voice) (562) 944-9158
(Email) evscott7@aol.com
11044 Theis Avenue
Whittier, CA 90604-1835

---------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Anne-Marie Meyer <marie@lorraine.u-strasbg.fr>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?

I'm doctoral student at the Institut of Geography of Strasbourg in France.
My work consist of an attempt in modelling the social organisation of the
town of Hamburg, so I became interested in system dynamics as a tool for
connecting the different components of the social organisation.
But this model lacks the spatial dimension wich is essential for a
geographer. I'm now trying to find a solution to this problem, maybe by
using spatial interaction models, in order to redistribute the population
who immigrates between the different districts of my study area.
I would be very glad to know if somebody had work or ideas on this problem
of the connection between system dynamics and spatial distribution.
Yours sincerely,

Anne-Marie Meyer

-----------------

From: Irishtmc@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000
Subject: Introduction
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

I am an elementary school teacher in Tacoma, WA I am teaching first
grade this year and will 'loop' with those students to second grade next
year.
I am also a student of the Lesley University's Master's in Teaching
program. The focus of the master's program is "Technology in Education." My
current coursework for that program focuses on Microworlds, Models and
Simulations. I have spent numerous hourse working thorough the materials and
references provided by my instructor, and searching the net for ideas, but
continue to have extreme difficulty understanding how to make the systems
model work in my classroom.
In my surfing, I came across the url for this group, and decided to
subscribe so that I could ask for advice from folks who obviously have a
better grasp on the subject material than I... Any hints, tips, advice,
suggestions, innuendos, etc., on how I can begin to make heads or tails of
the concepts involved in systems dynamics, and/or how I can actually apply it
in my classroom, would be greatly appreciated.
By way of background, this past week-end we investigated STELLA and
Microworlds programs, but they seemed so technical and abstract when I tried
to plug them into my curriculum that I couldn't find a single way to make a
credible connection. Thank you in advance for any help you are willing to
supply.
Regards,

Terry McCarthy
Fircrest, WA

--------------------

From: "Hans-Peter Hautz" <HansPeterHautz@addcom.de>
To: "k-12sd" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000

I am writing a dissertation on system dynamics in education in the USA (k-12). This was my first time I got contact with this topic and it seemed to be very interesting, because we are living in systems, we are working in systems, we do research on systems and we are biological systems. I think we have to be interested in understanding all this systems, so that we are able to manipulate them and work in them effectively. Searching on the internet, I got information about the book "Schools that learn", by Peter Senge published by Doubleday. I think this book is a very good summary of what it means to apply system dynamics in schools and to work with students in a systemdynamical way (a nice guide for all teachers, principals and politicians of the world). But I also think it is not the only adequat way to teach. We have to find a teaching-mix (like policy-mix in marketing) to prepare the students for the future.

From: "Wilhite, Stephen" <stephen.wilhite@quisic.com>
To: "'k-12sd'" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000

I was recently thrown into the system dynamics world when I got the assignment to design an online course on the business applications of system dynamics. This is in my day job as an instructional designer, but my first love and still part-time occupation is teaching English. The systems thinking method fit nicely with the critical thinking methods I had been using for years, tagmemic invention in particular, and I am currently toying with the idea of integrating modeling with other heuristics in my composition classes.

Steve Wilhite

-----------------

From: DPetrino@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000
Subject: Question
To: k-12mas@sysdyn.mit.edu

I've been asked to become my schools "data manager." In Florida the school
improvement process is driven by data. The indicators don't always reflect
accurately all the data that leads to the end results. Just so you know how
I feel --- I favor accountability --- and I hope the Florida process can
improve by using feedback and refinement.
I imagine most schools are faced with similar issues and challenges. One of
the things we would like to do is create a survey instrument that can better
reflect the attitudes and perceptions of those involved in our learning
community. The district has some but not very good ones - based more on
detection then prevention. I'm wondering if someplace on this green planet
there are better surveys that provide a clearer snapshot of the learning
experience and customer satisfaction.

Dan Petrino - Technology Education Teacher
Dixie M. Hollins HS
Pinellas County Florida

----------------

From: "Gordon Kubanek & Carmen Hust" <chust@monisys.ca>
To: k-12mas@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: improvement & tests for data collection
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000
Subject: improvement & tests for data collection

 Dear Dan,
 
As a "student" of SD and continuous improvement I see that "objective" standardized tests are often counter productive. It is not the "quality" of the test itself but that it is considered an "exogenous" variable outside of control of the school/student. By using a measurement tool designed by and for a particular group [using outside expertise for guidelines only] you can build real ownership, alignment and committment to implementing the change that the "test" suggests. In SD we would refer to this an "endogenous" variable - in other words the test itself is part of the feedback loop and subject to change within the system as it too is "subjective" and needs improvement. For a good critique of any standardized testing see <http://www.alfiekohn.org>www.alfiekohn.org
 
Yours,
Gordon Kubanek
Brookfield HS
Ottawa, Canada 

--------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Lees Stuntz <stuntzln@clexchange.org>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?

A group of us are interested in putting together a series of stories about system dynamics and its impact on individuals. We would like to know how you got interested ( "fell for") system dynamics. What was the drawing card for you? When did it occur and what was the progress of your interest? Was there an enlightenment moment?
Please all reply to the list so that we can all enjoy hearing from you. Have a good Thanksgiving!

Lees
Lees N. Stuntz
Creative Learning Exchange Phone- 978-287-0070
1 Keefe Road Fax- 978-287-0080
Acton, MA 01720 e-mail- stuntzln@clexchange.org
http://clexchange.org

---------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000
From: Alfred Bosshard <bosshard@active.ch>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?

I got interested decades ago thru the book Growth in a finite world
(1972). Then the interest was sleepy, mainly because I did not know
where to get information material and affordable computer programs until
I recently discovered free copies of Stella and Powersim and the MIT
distance learning course. Now I would like to pass the information on in
courses for adults.

regards
Alfred Bosshard

--------------------

From: KCStarguy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

I had done some work with robotics (made my own fischertechnik turtle- don't
ever get this product get lego dacta as docuementation is terrible),
interfacing problems, programming and more.
I signed up to take a workshop on stella. I became more interested in as
applied to science and others areas and curriculuum.
I still need to do a lot of practice with it . I teach multimedia for Lesley
college and stella is offered in some of the classes simulations and
microworlds by some people who really know their stuff. I just need time to
work on it some.

Dr.Eric Flescher

-----------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000
From: Niall Palfreyman <niall.palfreyman@fh-weihenstephan.de>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?

Lees Stuntz schrieb:
> We would like to know how you got interested ( "fell for") system dynamics.
With me it was quite simple. I happened to hear about SD the day after I
had first become aware that there really is something to homeopathy. The
day before, I'd realised (a) that homeopathy works, and (b) that unlike
conventional medicine it does do a quick, exogenous fix, but rather
enlists the help of the endogeneity (right word?!) of the entire body
system. The next day I happened to hear about SD, and this idea of
everything in a system coming together to achieve a behaviour which was
impossible for an one component, fell into place. I was hooked.
Niall Palfreyman.
-----------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000
From: Harry Forster <hforster@strato.net>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?

Thank you for asking about how I became interested in systems dynamics. It
has given me an opportunity to reflect on how I have come to my present
state. I will use the term linear graphics as a generic term for reasons
that you will see is appropriate.
My first introduction to linear graphics was when I learned flow graphs
from Professor Mason. We used it to study electronic circuits and systems.
Professor Mason made two great impressions on me. The first was when he
brought his hound dog to the lecture so that he could sit there and stare
at us as a reflection of how we
stared at him. That was the beginning of my introspection about my
relationship to linear graphs. If I looked like that dog then I had
better reflect on why.
The second impression was when he related to us the experiment he made
comparing computation with conventional techniques and flow graphs. As he
related to us he gave the same problem to two groups, one using
conventional analysis and the other using flow graphs. He reported the
results as, "They both got the wrong answer but
the flow graph group got it first." Now many years later I realize how
critical this philosophy is in the analysis of complex systems;
particularly in political vote counting.
I have always had difficulty with linear graphics because it enables my
shortcoming of trying to make "simple" engineering problems excessively
complex. I tried to understand how linear graphics works by reading many
of the papers by people such as Desoer and Mason. One paper by Mason
introduced the idea that linear graphics can
be applied to non-linear computations with certain requirements. This
started to open my mind to the potential of linear graphics. I believe it
was likely at this time that I started to realize that linear graphics is
really logic and not numbers. This idea has taken over my thinking so
that at the present I feel that one of
the errors of our present math curriculum is that it thinks that
mathematics is numbers where in reality it is logic. This error leads to
teaching-opportunity-losses let alone the people that we lose because of
the presentation.
As I tried to expand my understanding I acquired Industrial Dynamics ,
students edition for which ( as I look back at the book now) I had to pay
the high sum of $14.75. It appears that I also invested the sum of $8.00
for Principles of Systems (second preliminary edition). I still refer to
these books often because of the
insight that they give me about the algorithms of the concept of Industrial
Dynamics.
The major intellectual gain that came from these experiences was the
demonstration of the extension of Masons generalized concepts to a more
general universe in which it is possible to relate the interrelationships
of different domains of variables such as product, information, currency,
and information. This was mind boggling in
that the concept of linear graphs as logic now had no bounds.
I felt omnipotent in that I now had a most powerful tool. I was soon to
learn that the world did not share my enthusiasm. My first loss of
comradeship came when a coworker proudly showed how he had spent weeks
analyzing a problem with a computer. I showed him how the same result
could be obtained "by inspection" using linear
graphical techniques. It was then obvious to me that very few of us are
trained to have inquiring minds. The vast majority of us have Inquirer
minds.
I have since used linear graphs frequently. The majority of the time I use
them in the logical qualitative sense. The advantage is that I can use
them to get "engineering" solutions from my instinctively overly complex
conceptualizations. The advantage is that I always have somewhere to go
when my "neat" socially acceptable
solution finally gets recognized as incorrect. This is the manifestation
of the famous Forrester assertion that our instincts fail us in complex
problems.
The works of the Meadows's "Limits to Growth" and Forrester's "Urban
Dynamics" have given me the courage to expand linear graphic techniques to
such areas as Habermas's Communicative Theory and a model of cognitive
processing based on the concepts of Goedel and formal logical systems.
This latter is the ultimate attempt to expand
the important basis of linear graphs; logic.
My current crusade is to reduce the ranks of the Inquirer minds. A few
years ago I had the opportunity to apply linear graphics to a post
secondary math curriculum. I learned a lot as I took the time to work
through many ideas that had been in my mind in crude states for years. I
then undertook the task of trying to find out
how I could introduce these ideas to primary and secondary levels. I was
quite pleased to find that there are many common popular children's
activities that can introduce both logic and graphic concepts. I am still
at the concept development stage in this effort in which I attempt to
identify activities and then break them down
into their epistemological elements. I have had limited opportunity to
apply these concepts at the elementary level but the results have been very
rewarding and have led me to reconsider the development of abilities in
children.
As you can surmise from the above, systems dynamics is the goal of my
present effort. I am primarily interested in the development of an
understanding of what systems dynamics is as opposed to the demonstration
of what it can do. Exercises with linear graph concepts and logic are
necessary to maintain interest in the learning
process and to show why you want to learn systems dynamics.

----------------

From: "Gordon Kubanek & Carmen Hust" <chust@monisys.ca>
To: "k-12sd" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000

Dear Lees,
We would like to know how you got interested ( "fell for") system dynamics.
I was frustrated with the "Soft and mushy and cuddly" way education was being done. As an Engineer I figured there must be some way to make Learning challenging BUT connected to the "real" world. In the summer of '98 I worked at NORTEL [ high tech internet-phone switching company] where I researched simulation methods for a Senior Engineer. During my search I came acrss SD & saw how Schools were using this method. After reading a bit of Roadmaps and Steve Guthrie's work I was hooked. I asked NORTEL to pay for me to take the year long Intro to modelling course from MIT - they did!
I really enjoyed the long distance learning course - finally something with an intellectual challenge that I could bring back to my students. More importantly though SD turned the computer into a tool that could bring people TOGETHER to work on real life people problems instead of isolating them and reducing issues to mere data.
I was especially impressed at the World SD/Systems Conference in New Zealand how SD could seamlessly be "soft' and "hard". I felt that this approach could bridge the two worlds of the "logical" and "artistic". After presenting at two World conferences & teaching 2 courses to business managers & consultants I am more convinced than ever that this way of looking at issues and learning is a valuable addition to the educational landscape.

Sincerely,
Gordon Kubanek
P.Eng.
What was the drawing card for you? When did it occur and what was the progress of your interest? Was there an enlightenment moment?
 
---------------------

From: "Myers, Rodney" <Rodney.Myers@Persnet.Navy.Mil>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000

I first learned about system dynamics through a web search. In 1996, I had
just begun a new Operations Research Analyst position with the Navy
Personnel Research Organization in San Diego, California. I was apart of a
very ambitious project titled, "Manpower and Personnel Vision of the
Future." The primary finding of that project was that there needed to be an
integrated simulation model for Navy Manpower and Personnel. I was tasked to
create such a model . I began to search the web for simulation methods and
packages that would accomplish integrated simulation. Several sites were
located that discussed system dynamics. I began to accumulate volumes of
information, and ultimately purchased a copy of the ithink software.
That efforted died, and was not reintroduced to system dynamics until early
2000. I am now enrolled in the MIT "system dynamics foundations course", and
am presently developing system dynamics models for a 3 year project titled
"integrated personnel simulation technologies."

v/r
Rodney Myers
Navy Personnel Research Studies & Technologies
5720 Integrity Drive
Millington, TN 38055-1100
901/874-4925 (Voice)
901/874-2569 (Fax)
882-4925 (DSN)
 
 --------------

From: "Moore, John" <MOORE@crms.dade.k12.fl.us>
To: "'k-12sd'" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: How did YOU get interested?
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000

In the early 90's I was working on the applications of TQM to public schools. I attended a conference in New York City that featured a discussion group with W. Edwards Deming. I went to hear Dr. Deming. Dr. Peter Senge was on the agenda as co-presenter. I had not heard of him before. The things Dr. Senge said during the presentation ( and Dr. Demings comments about Dr. Senge's work) created my interest. Subsequently I started reading and doing action research locally on application of the core theory. It has proved to be an essential element in building a deeper understanding of change processes.

From: Luke4101@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

My interest in systems comes from the 70's when I was trained in family
"systems" therapy and had the wonderful opportunity to use video taping and
consultants from behind a one way mirror. During this time we observed our
interaction with the family system... It was dynamic, to say the least.
I've taken what I learned with me but found the 80's pretty resistent to
systems thinking and intervention. There didn't seem to be too many
professionals who thought in systems terms. It wasn't until I read Peter
Senge that I thought, "Finally, it's being applied to the work world!". I
now work in the area of employee consultation and training. There's still
resistence out there but it is changing. Just recently, on a proposal to
coach executive staff of a non-profit agency, I built in the benefits of
coaching leaders toward thinking systemically as one of today's competitive
advantage!
In the education arena, I have a child with a label of "special ed". He
loves learning but in the fifth grade, he began saying "I give up!". I was
fearful of special ed process of marginalization (and still am..) For the
next three years, he went to a Vygotsky-based school program where he had no
classroom instruction, lesson plans or books. He just interacted throughout
the day with students from ages 6 - 19 years old. This restored his self
confidence and love of learning. And, by the way, he didn't loose any ground
by hanging out in this loosely, loosely structured yet flowing system. He
gained as a contributing member!

Jane Luke

-----------------

From: Jdtwayne@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

I recently became interested in systems theory when I began to explore
brain-based learning. I looked for applications of metacognitive education
processes and simply stumbled into it. As I began to read and explore the
theory and applications I became convinced that this is something I want to
apply to my teaching, so I joined this list. I am in the process of
initiating several projects and would like the use of systems theory to be
one of them. If there are any online training tutorials or conferences in
the North Carolina area let me know! I'm very excited about learning this
approach and look forward to hearing from everyone.
 
 
"If you can be patient in one moment of anger you will be saved one thousand
sorrows."

------------------------

From: "Juan Sanchez (TXM)" <TXMJUSG@am2.ericsson.se>
To: "'k-12sd'" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000

I got interested 4 months ago thru one of my subjects of the Master in Administration of IT. Also, my wife is studying her Master degree in Preschool Education. We are planning to teach basic education (K-3). I am sure SD will be required for these future generations.
Right Now, I am working in the Intellectual Property Right Department as Patent Engineer at ERICSSON.

Regards
Juan Sanchez

----------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000
From: "P.S. Abode" <pxabode@fresno.k12.ca.us>
To: k-12mas@sysdyn.mit.edu

Dan:
 <http://www.unl.edu/buros/>Buros Institute  is all I know.  Its got tons of tests.  Tests In Print (TIP) and Mental Measurement Yearbook (MMY) are probably your best sources.  MMY may be found in your local libraries, though available online with subscription.
 
Philip Abode

DPetrino@aol.com wrote:
I've been asked to become my schools "data manager."  In Florida the school improvement process is driven by data.  The indicators don't always reflect
accurately all the data that leads to the end results.  Just so you know how
I feel --- I favor accountability --- and I hope the Florida process can
improve by using feedback and refinement.
I imagine most schools are faced with similar issues and challenges.  One of the things we would like to do is create a survey instrument that can better
reflect the attitudes and perceptions of those involved in our learning
community.  The district has some but not very good ones - based more on
detection then prevention.  I'm wondering if someplace on this green planet
there are better surveys that provide a clearer snapshot of the learning
experience and customer satisfaction.
Dan Petrino - Technology Education Teacher Dixie M.  Hollins HS
Pinellas County Florida

-------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000
From: "Kim Clary" <kclary.RHS_PO.RHS@roseburg.k12.or.us>
To: <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?

My name is Kim Clary, and I teach math at Roseburg High School in Roseburg,
Oregon. When I first got interested in SD, I didn't know that's what I was
interested in. I had just switched careers to become a math teacher in
1992. It seemed to me there must be a better way to graph functions than
by hand, so I asked my new colleagues if they knew of any graphing software
that would do certain things that I wanted it to do. They said maybe
STELLA did, but no one had time during their busy teaching schedules to
show me how to use the software. Then a brochure came my way for the
CC-STADUS training in Portland, OR. Not only would I be able to learn the
software, but as a first-year teacher with a family to support, the stipend
would be icing on the cake! The training convinced me of what a huge
instructional tool the software could be, especially for integrating
curriculum and having students USE math to solve problems.
At the time, there was no way for me to actually teach a class with
modeling software because we didn't have equipment for classroom lessons,
and we didn't have enough copies of the software for our computer lab. I
started trying to find money to get a site license at our school. Long
story short, Joe Beatty and I applied for and received a GTE GIFT grant.
The $12,000 grant was kind of overkill for a site license, but we managed
to spend the money on lots of other good stuff, too, including some
professional development. By now it was 1998, and we attended the national
conference in New Hampshire as part of our professional development on the
GTE grant. The conference was mind-boggling for me. It was the first time
I realized there was this whole field out there, that I had stumbled into
an exciting, relevant, new (for me, anyway) thing. (Of course, sitting
down in a chair at a keynote address and then realizing that Jay Forrester
is sitting right next to you is also pretty mind-boggling, especially when
he is taking more notes than you are!) Because our grant had been written
for teaching a "Computer Modeling" course, the first year of our project
was pretty much tied down to the activities we had outlined in our grant
proposal. But we learned more and more about the systems thinking that
goes into making models, and we tried to include more of those concepts in
our second year of the course.
With a slight paradigm shift in how to teach math, I have used more of a
systems perspective in my algebra classes, also, and the students repond
extremely well. I teach mostly students who have struggled much with math.
Many of their foundation skills are weak, and many of them probably are not
yet ready for the abstract thinking involved with algebra. (Nevertheless,
"Algebra for Everyone," right? Did I say that?) On the assesments I gave
after teaching linear functions, almost all my students were able to
correctly make a stock and flow diagram, translate it into y=mx+b form,
explain what all the variables mean, sketch a BOTG, explain what the slope
is, calculate the slope and y-intercept given two points on the graph.
Essentially, when the problems were couched as situations to be described
in symbolic, graphical, or verbal form, most students were very successful.
However, on the problems where I just said, "Find the equation of the line
that passes through the points (8,5) and (12,3)," almost no one was able to
do it. When we are working with stock and flow diagrams, I hear comments
like, "You make this real." I'm not sure why stocks and flows are more
real than m's and b's since they both are basically abstract ideas, but
apparently the visual nature of the stocks and flows make them more "real"
to my students.
Last year was the first year I taught exponential growth from stock and
flow diagrams, but the level of understanding displayed by my students
using this method was way beyond what I had come to expect from other ways
I taught. Again, most of my students don't get much meaning from the
traditional mathematical representations of exponential growth, and I know
they have a much better understanding of the concept using a "systems"
perspective. Though the numbers I am about to give you are small, I think
it is a significant enough observation to mention. There were 11 juniors
in my classes who were required to take the Oregon Statewide
Problem-Solving Assessment last year. All 11 of them met the state
standards on this assessment, which was somthing none of them had
accomplished up to this point in their academic careers. All 11 chose
problems related to the work we had done on exponential growth and decay.
I can't believe I have written this much stuff. The last thing I want to
add is that as a math teacher, the speed of the calculations from the
software keeps students from losing interest in boring, repetitive
number-crunching before they grasp the ideas. That is not a trivial
benefit!

If you have read this far, thanks!
---------------------

From: Patzito1@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

Responding to Harry on the use of SD to analyze data:
Our rationale:
We knew that we were going nowhere by trying to bring new content to teachers
who were already strapped for time. We knew that what we had to do was to
impact them personally and in their professional lives. So, we strategically
decided to teach them the skills of SD using BOTGs and other tools, to
enhance their standing in the school community and with parents. (This
recognition occurred because teachers were willing to be accountable for the
"results" of the self-discipline report card and created charts and graphs
documenting the data.)
Once teachers experienced an increase in respect and recognition, then we
added a personal development model based on systems thinking. (This
model--PRSM--Personal REsources System Mangement created by Barbara McFall--
is currently being piloted in schools in PA and will soon be available both
on the web and in print.) Then we had impacted teachers both professionally
and personally --this has been on-going for 3 yrs-- and now they're ready to
teach the skills to students.
Please don't request the PRSM model at this time. Once we have it ready, we
will let the list-serve know.
The school district is a suburban district, but not an affluent community of
approx. 7,500 students. One of the goals of the dept. was to increase
parental involvement. Sending the reverse report card home and asking for
parents to respond as to whether they are seeing a transfer of the
self-discipline skills in the home environment, garnered a very high rate of
return.
As an education consultant to this dept., it is my personal belief that staff
development in education needs to focus on the needs of the person.
Otherwise you have what Ed Joyner (Schools that Learn) calls "drive by" staff
development. You can talk at teachers all day, but give them a tool that
they can use to improve their own lives and then you'll see real change take
place.
Hope this explanation has helped all to understand why we have been teaching
these skills to teachers to use in their lives first.

Pat Zito
Education Consultant
1300 Wintergreen Lane
Fairview, PA 16415
814-474-2083

--------------------

From: Michael Gallagher <mgallagher@esd123.org>
To: "'k-12sd'" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000

To Kim Clary and others,
I will be assisting 5-7th grade teachers to improve math performance by
providing services they can purchase with Technology Leadership Challenge
Funds. Is it reasonable to think that promoting SD and modeling software for
that goal would be well received by a group of teachers, and that the
learning curve wouldn't be too daunting?

Thanks, Mike

--------------------

From: "heiko gebauer" <w6gehe@hotmail.com>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Evaluation of learning progress
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000

Dear members of k-12,
my name is Heiko Gebauer. I'm a research associate at the university of St.
Gallen. We are working on a project about computer-based learning at the
moment. We have big problems to evaluate the learning progress. How can you
evaluate the learning progress caused by different computer-based learning
tools.
Thanks for you support.

Best regards
Heiko Gebauer

----------------------

From: Irishtmc@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

Hello,
I saw yur posting and wondered if you and/or your wife have found
applications for SD in the primary grades as yet. If so, would you be
willing to share? I teach 1st grade in an urban school which serves a very
challenging population. I am hoping to incorporate SD through literature and
would also like to integrate it into other subject areas...
Thanks in advance!

Terry McCarthy

---------------

Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
From: Ed Gallaher <gallaher@mail.teleport.com>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?

Reply to Terry:
Not quite yet, but wait until our workshop at OHSU takes place later this week.
A number of individuals have introduced various concepts at very low
grade levels, with surprising success. But these are very sketchy and
not well-organized as yet.
In our workshop we will attempt to organize basic concepts from very
simple to more complex, and identify those which have been tried at
each grade level, along with some indication of success. We expect
this to be a multi-year evolving process, but at least it will get us
all on the same page, and hopefully, moving in the right direction.
Those concepts that have been tried at younger ages should clearly be
able to be incorporated rather quickly at higher grade levels.
In addition, this progression will provide path for teachers who want
to learn these materials themselves.
My current grant, SimHealth, is in the pilot stage, with a renewal
for a dissemination stage due next Sept. We will have a web site up
shortly, and any comments, suggestions, and indications of interest
will help considerably for our future funding and extension of this
work.
As materials are developed we will make them available via Summer
Creek Press, or other suitable routes.
Keep in touch!

Ed

-------------------

From: "Rakesh Kapoor" <mslmr@lw1.dot.net.in>
To: "k-12sd" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Cc: <patzito1@aol.com>
Subject: The importance of real improvement of teachers in their personal lives

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000

Dear sir,
I wholeheartedly agree with your remark that unless we impact the teachers personally and in their professional lives, their energies will not be released.
Here at Modern School, Lucknow, India, we have been teaching teachers self awareness-meditation also, to bring them out of their grooves and fixations and obsolete scripts of life. In May 1997, we were the first school in India to have recieved ISO9002 certification, the quality assurance international standard for systems. We are a private, K-12, coeducational, day school, English medium, with 1550 students on roll, founded since 1980. Almost ten percent of teachers' time, per session, is spent in their development (in the school premises), including two hours every Saturday afternoon, since the last six years.
The reverse report card has been sent to the parents as part of their development, school PR and feedback system under TQM, regularly, once an year, for the last fifteen years.
I have bought Stella and am waiting for the right opportunity to start it among the teachers.
Rakesh Kapoor
Founder principal
Modern School, Lucknow India 226024
mslmr@lw1.dot.net.in

---------------

From: "carmen hust & gordon kubanek" <chust@monisys.ca>
To: "k-12sd" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Evaluation of learning progress
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000

Hi Heiko,
I did a pilot project on on-line learning - I used constant questionaires
and compared the test results and attendance/satisfaction with the rest of
the class who were learning chemistry the "regular way".
Check out the website with results at:
http://grassroots.mediacentre.com/OCDSBROO9/

All the best
Gordon Kubanek

---------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000
To: evscott7@aol.com
From: Linda Booth Sweeney <Linda_Booth_Sweeney@harvard.edu>
Subject: How did YOU get interested?
Cc: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

Elane,
I am tremendously intrigued by your response to the "how you got
interested" question. As the parent of a two year old and expecting
another to arrive in January, I'm particularly curious about your
insight that "the successful development of the whole child is
greatly aided by parents' understanding of the dynamics of a system."
What is the link that you see between a child's development and the
parent's understanding of a system's dynamics?

My best,
Linda Booth Sweeney
---------------------------------
Linda Booth Sweeney
Harvard Graduate School of Education
e-mail: Linda_Booth_Sweeney@harvard.edu
tel: 617-354-1390
fax: 617-491-3496

----------------

From: "Gene Stamell" <gstamell@hotmail.com>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: SD in Lower Grades
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000

Another Reply to Terry,
I teach third grade in Carlisle, MA. This is an upper income community but I
feel these simple ideas are usable in any primary classroom.
I approach SD by being very aware of oppotunities to use Behavior Over
Time graphs in my teaching. Once you get in this habit, you'll find yourself
referring to BOTG's in all kinds of situations. Sometimes I teach specific
lessons, often based on graphs I've found in local newspapers or in
Scholastic News, our classroom weekly magazine. Many other times, I just
"throw in" the concept of BOTG in discussions we have. We might be
discussing the ways a character in a book changed and we'll quickly sketch a
graph of his/her feelings; I might be helping 2 friends solve a problem and
will mention the idea of "ups and downs" of relationships in terms of a
graph.
It's hard to pinpoint, but BOTG's come up more, in one contesxt or
another, at least once a week in our room.

gene stamell

--------------------
End of November 2000