February 2000


To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Lees Stuntz <stuntzln@tiac.net>
Subject: Curriculum for the Fieldbook
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000


Dear Folks,
I have been asked by the writers/editors of the upcoming Education
Fieldbook to give them a list of curricula with which people can start
using systems education in their teaching. They have asked for curricula
suitable for elementary, middle and high school as well as curicula which
teach systems education. What are your favorites?? What has been the most
useful to you? What from the Creative Learning Exchange list is the best??
Which unit which you have submitted is the best?? I will only have one
page to list all of the items chosen.
I appreciate your help. I need to get this list to them by the end
of next week- so if you have a moment over the weekend- I would appreciate
it if you could just send off a brief message to me!!
Thank you in advance,.
Lees Stuntz


Lees N. Stuntz
Creative Learning Exchange Phone- 978-287-0070
1 Keefe Road Fax- 978-287-0080
Acton, MA 01720 e-mail- stuntzln@tiac.net
http://sysdyn.mit.edu/cle/
 
xxxxxxxxx


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000
Subject: Helping hands
From: "Timothy Joy" <tjoy@pps.k12.or.us>
To: "k-12sd" k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu


> I guess the question is: How do we get as many people (stakeholders) as we
> can involved in implementing and sustaining necessary change in K-12 ed?
> It is very hard for single teachers or administrators to do it on their
> own. I think many people outside of the school would be willing to help,
> as so many have already done.
For too long, schools have literally locked their doors to the outside
world. Notwithstanding the recent tragedies that throw the bolt into the
chamber, people in schools must see themselves as resources for their
community, advertise themselves in this way, and reach out to them for these
efforts. I believe there is a moral imperative in this: provide
inquisitive minds with social purpose, and we foment hope within that
community. To the extent we continue to separate these populations--the
adult world of workers and doers from the young world of students--we also
cleave learning as a life pursuit. Imagine the desire of a community to
support a school if its students are a resource.
>>I feel that within schools, administrators are the key support people. Not
>>only for encouragement but also for that stamp of approval for grant writing.
>>They are the people that have the time and responsibility to visit
>>different classrooms, promote and encourage innovation, promote more
>>learner-centered curriculum, promote and encourage what they see in
>>classrooms to other teachers, and organize inservice opportunities for
>>teachers.
>
> In schools with a supportive admin, SD/ST can blossom. Is there anything
> parents or others can do to help? What would administrators out there
> suggest?
In a private school, parents are a key leverage point in change. If the
administration trusts the teachers -- and is wise enough not to mandate
change before people can -- then much will follow. Parents at our school
have written letters to administrators begging for more opportunities in
systems as they realize their children are taking, as one parent said, "the
most important class she'll ever take at La Salle." Hard to get better
press than that!
Further, as a private school, we market our curriculum during an Open House.
Students from the systems class set up an interactive room for prospective
parents, who then went on to see other teachers in, say, Social Studies and
asked how they used system dynamics in their classes. Several hundred
parents and prospective students went through the room that afternoon.
Other public schools in Portland do this, and it is a SMART move. Invite
parents, administrators, city officials, you name it. Once they see what
students do, community leaders will want to help.
Still more: students are fabulous ambassadors for systems education. Every
opportunity to put them before a crowd, we should leap at. We are, after
all, attempting to change the world through sound citizenship: students
build models to understand, but that is not enough. To tell that compelling
story of what's now understood to people who do not see it IS THE POINT. I
have yet to witness any public event with students in which adults were not
swayed. The authentic power of their deep understanding exudes a salutary
effect. Students believe they are a part of something important, and it
shows.
>>The technology must be available also. It is very frustrating for teachers
>>to try to work with ST/SD without the necessary (working) technology to
>>support it. I am there now!!!
>
> If you could have any technology, what would you request? Is used
> equipment OK or more trouble than it is worth?
The technology is clearly a significant issue. It is very expensive to get
and maintain. This is where the System Dynamics Society, for instance, may
be of help: if not in actual cash or in kind assistance, members at least
know prominent people and know the benefit of the work. They ought to lobby
in capitals or at cocktail parties on our behalf. In the very least,
Society members ought to find their nearest schools and introduce themselves
to Academic Deans, a teacher or two, or the parent board. Possibly, a small
cadre of members in a region might host a single evening dinner, followed by
a "get-to-know-system-dynamics" presentation.
The life of a laptop is brief. We are seeing them falter, feather out, and
outright fail, now about three years after purchase. We have purchased some
refurbished equipment, and it is too early to tell since we've had it only
since September. This entire issue troubles me since it distracts from the
primary effort of teaching.
Computers need not be the fastest available, since the software is not too
cumbersome. Nor is there a great need for lots of presentation hardware or
software since we have found that overheads do quite well for making these
presentations: efforts spent helping students prepare is far more valuable
than projectors and colorful, animated models. In this venue, words and
countenance remain key components.
>>Outside the classroom, having professionals who work with ST/SD, that can
>>also teach, are invaluable to work with both teachers and students in
>>workshops and ongoing classes. Here in Portland that has been provided by
>>PGE and Richard Turnock. He has offered several classes for both teachers
>>and students over the past year. We are very thankful for their support
>>and Richard's efforts.
>
> Is this arrangement something that other businesses could do too? How did
> it come about? Any advice to others about what works best, pitfalls, etc?
What Richard and Portland General Electric (PGE) are doing is a great model
for other areas. Most large corporations have some community outreach
program, whether it is merely a speaker who has a circuit or an actual
community education effort. These need to be identified and tapped.
Richard took our summer training about three or four years ago, recognized
the inherent power of the ideas and has been a champion for our regional
efforts ever since. He has helped with SyM*Bowl, sponsored these classes
Teresa spoke about, and assists us in other ways. Maybe we ask Richard to
make a special presentation at the K-12 Conference, sitting along side
district and school administrators, as well as someone like Jim Waters.
Richard's boss at PGE might also be a good person to have there: why does
he believe what Richard does is important?
> Any other ideas? How do we involve the broader community and enlist the
> support of volunteers in this effort to improver K-12 education?
The last thing any of us need is a mandate. What we really need is a
measured endorsement.
In Portland, we are hoping for this spring's SyM*Bowl to enlarge community
awareness. While we truly need endorsements and awareness and support, many
people will simply need to be patient. That pool of endorsers/champions
necessarily supports a much smaller pool teacher/practitioners in system
dynamics than they expect to find: we quite often hear,"Why don't more
teachers use this tool?" In time, both pools will grow, but we have to
hope for appropriate growth: a sudden and positive influx to that decisive
pool of endorsers/champions put those in that smaller pool of teachers under
tremendous pressure.
Seven to ten year frames of reference. Are there people with that kind of
patience? If we consider the infection of one teacher, and under normal
conditions, and the spread of SD in its host body (a school), such a time
course appropriately reflects the time needed for a minimal - and
SUSTAINABLE-infusion in the curriculum. Things happen: administration
changes, teachers move on, money is (or is not) available.
Every county in America hires people to measure things: water, ground
contamination, animals, sewer, money, people, trees, miles of road, erosion,
acreage, houses. The list goes on. Students can use models and adopt some
plot of land on, or near, their schools and learn all they can about it.
Some generic population models would guide younger students in their
learning about their school as well as about SD (Look, this year I'm in this
stock; next year, I'll be here!). Students in older grades might also
adopt special community projects, years long in their construction, in which
one grade adds new data and structure to the work of a previous class: one
cohort teaching the next, knowledge building-a community helping itself.
They will come to value their school, their stake in what that school means
to where they live, and they will have something to offer, though knowing
those values about their school may be virtue enough.
Timothy Joy


Xxxxxxxxxxx


From: KCStarguy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:21:18 EST
Subject: Re: helping hands
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu, LyneisD@cle.tiac.net, Awaggone@greenbay.k12.wi.us


I read
It is important in my view to integrate the teaching of systems thinking with
some of these other major efforts at reform in schools, so that systems
thinking is not viewed as just one more isolated idea for school change.
I started thinking toward this by developing my 20 plus ways model (see my
website) and see how internet could link with our standards. That is not
necessarily innovation in itself.
You then have to think of different products for students to produce other
then essays.
Then need to learn skill such as notetaking, summarizing, analysis and
synthesis.


Dr. Eric Flescher, (KCStarguy@aol.com)- Educational Technology
Consultant-Multimedia- Adjunct Faculty, Lesley College-Technology Magic and
Worlds to Explore-20 plus ways for using the internet for teaching, learning
and education model http://ada.lesley.edu/faculty/flescher/team1.htm Project
S.I.M. (Simulations, Interdisciplinary internet and Metacognitive activities)
 
 In a message dated 1/20/00 10:28:21 AM, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu writes:
<< ate: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:55:19 -0600
From: "ANNELIESE WAGGONER" <Awaggone@greenbay.k12.wi.us>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: helping hands
I think that one thing the system dynamics people can do is to partner or
piggyback on some of the mainstream efforts related to constructivist ideas
or to promoting higher order thinking skills in the curriculum. It is
important in my view to integrate the teaching of systems thinking with
some of these other major efforts at reform in schools, so that systems
thinking is not viewed as just one more isolated idea for school change.
Anneliese Waggoner


Anneliese Waggoner
Supervisor of Staff Development
Green Bay Area Public Schools
200 S. Broadway
Green Bay, Wi 54303
(920)448-2068


>>> "k-12sd" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu> 01/11 7:36 AM >>>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:16:28 -0500
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Debra Lyneis <LyneisD@cle.tiac.net>
Subject: helping hands


Happy New Year!
Could I ask for some help, please? I'd like to pull together a paper on
"Bringing System Dynamics and Systems Thinking to a School Near You." The
key to system dynamics in K-12 education lies in the classroom, in the
interactions between teachers and their students. This is where we have to
succeed. However, it seems to me that it is very difficult for one teacher
to make such a big change and sustain it on his/her own.
In many schools where SD is catching on in these early stages, there has
been support and encouragement from outside the classroom. That support
has come from a variety of places: champions, foundation grants,
businesses, academia, SD experts, taxpayers, parents, school boards and
administrators. It has also come in many forms, from money and equipment,
to encouragement, technical advice and political pressure. It has all been
very generous and invaluable.
At this point, I would like to outline some of these contibutions to
acknowledge them and set examples for others to follow. It may be useful
to have such a wish list when people ask what they can do to help. It is a
way to build involvement in schools and improve education with SD/ST--two
good things!
I've begun to gather info, but I'd love to hear more.
* What things have people done to help you get going? What was most
helpful and why? Any advice? Any pitfalls?
* What do you WISH people would do to help? This includes local
businesses, local SD/ST experts, parents of your students, school boards,
local colleges, anyone else. (I think parents may be an untapped
influential resource here.)
* These can be big things or little things, material things (like specific
technology needs) or non-material things (like encouragement, expertise.)
Whatever you think is important.
Maybe if you post your ideas, someone else out there will be inspired to
volunteer. Or you can e-mail me directly at LyneisD@cle.tiac.net.
Thanks so much. I hope this helps.
Deb Lyneis
(Wearer of many hats: curriculum writer through the Gordon Brown Fund at
the CLE, member of the Waters Grant team at the Carlisle (MA) Schools,
former Carlisle school board member, former SPED teacher, proud parent, SD
spouse, and firm believer that SD can and must improve education.)


xxxxxxxxxxxx


From: Dan Barcan <dbarcan@cpcs.chtr.k12.ma.us>
To: "'k-12sd'" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Curriculum for the Fieldbook
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000


To be honest, I have found Road Maps the most useful. I am working with
7th and 8th graders.
Dan Barcan


Xxxxxxxxxxxx


From: KCStarguy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000
Subject: Re: Teaching "backwards"
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu, EVScott7@aol.com


What did you do with the students?
Use STELLA? If so, how?
Dr. Eric Flescher, (KCStarguy@aol.com)- Educational Technology
Consultant-Multimedia- Adjunct Faculty, Lesley College-Technology Magic and
Worlds to Explore-20 plus ways for using the internet for teaching, learning
and education model http://ada.lesley.edu/faculty/flescher/team1.htm
Project S.I.M. (Simulations, Interdisciplinary internet and Metacognitive
activities)
In a message dated 1/20/00 10:28:09 AM, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu writes:
<< hile I am in no way an expert in SD, I am a long time learner and am
absolutely clear that an appreciation of systems and how they work was the
key to the success of this project where more than 40 students easiily put
aside wildly varying educational, socio-ecnomic, demograpshic, gender,
ethnic, and racial backgrounds and found common ground in a big enough,
important enough topic: How are we going to create successful communities in
the future? What fun! >>


Xxxxxxxxxxx


Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000
Subject: Re: Curriculum for the Fieldbook
From: "Diana M. Fisher" <dfisher@pps.k12.or.us>
To: k-12sd k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu


Dear Lees,
on 2/7/00 8:42 AM, k-12sd at k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu wrote:
> I have been asked by the writers/editors of the upcoming Education
> Fieldbook to give them a list of curricula with which people can start
> using systems education in their teaching. They have asked for curricula
> suitable for elementary, middle and high school as well as curicula which
> teach systems education. What are your favorites?? What has been the most
> useful to you? What from the Creative Learning Exchange list is the best??
> Which unit which you have submitted is the best?? I will only have one
> page to list all of the items chosen.
Aside from the curriculum that I have created for both the systems course
and the use of systems in math, I have found the following useful (although
not to use with students directly, rather as source material for my own
lessons):
* Road Maps - download from http://sysdyn.mit.edu
* Nancy Robert's book "Introduction to Computer Simulation..."
I also use "Systems 1" by Draper Kauffman
> I appreciate your help. I need to get this list to them by the end
> of next week- so if you have a moment over the weekend- I would appreciate
> it if you could just send off a brief message to me!!

Diana
Diana M. Fisher
NSF CC-SUSTAIN Project Co-Director
(Cross-Curricular Systems Using STELLA: Training and Inservice)1997-2000
NSF CC-STADUS Project Director
(Cross Curricular Systems Thinking and Dynamics Using STELLA)1993-1997
grant web page => www.cc-stadus.com
Franklin High School
5405 SE Woodward St.
Portland, OR 97206
(503) 916-5140
dfisher@pps.k12.or.us
"Every explanation should be as simple as possible but no simpler."
(Einstein)


Xxxxxxxxxxx


To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000
Subject: Jac Vennix's article in System Dynamics Review
Has anyone read Jac Vennix's article on group model-building in the latest
issue
of the System Dynamics Review? I thought it was stunningly good, and recommend
reading it.
Cheers,
Niall.


Xxxxxxxxxxxx


Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
From: Debra Lyneis <LyneisD@cle.tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Helping hands


Dear Tim,
Thanks for putting it all into perspective. You're so right about
strengthening the ties between schools and communities, links which can
only benefit everyone involved. The schools belong to and serve all of us.
However, that doesn't mean that anyone can/should tell schools what to do
expecting immediate change and improvement. Is that what you meant when
you wrote:
>The last thing any of us need is a mandate. What we really need is a
>measured endorsement.
>
>In Portland, we are hoping for this spring's SyM*Bowl to enlarge community
>awareness. While we truly need endorsements and awareness and support, many
>people will simply need to be patient. That pool of endorsers/champions
>necessarily supports a much smaller pool teacher/practitioners in system
>dynamics than they expect to find: we quite often hear,"Why don't more
>teachers use this tool?" In time, both pools will grow, but we have to
>hope for appropriate growth: a sudden and positive influx to that decisive
>pool of endorsers/champions put those in that smaller pool of teachers under
>tremendous pressure.
>Seven to ten year frames of reference. Are there people with that kind of
>patience? If we consider the infection of one teacher, and under normal
>conditions, and the spread of SD in its host body (a school), such a time
>course appropriately reflects the time needed for a minimal - and
>SUSTAINABLE-infusion in the curriculum. Things happen: administration
>changes, teachers move on, money is (or is not) available.
What is the risk in pushing too hard at first? (We've all done it in our
eagerness to improve k-12 ed with SD. I know I've learned this lesson the
hard way!) What does it mean to "push too hard" and what are the
consequences? Are there practical suggestions we could make which might
help other well-intentioned supporters not make the same mistakes?
Thanks,
Deb
 
Debra Lyneis
LyneisD@cle.tiac.net
Creative Learning Exchange


Xxxxxxxxxxx


From: "John Gunkler" <jgunkler@sprintmail.com>
To: "k-12sd" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Who should determine curriculum?
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000


I know Debra Lyneis wasn't focusing on this issue when she wrote:
>>However, that doesn't mean that anyone can/should tell schools what to do
expecting immediate change and improvement.<<
But it raises a question I'm struggling with right now (emotionally,
unfortunately, as well as rationally.) I live in Minnesota. For those who
don't know, about 10 years ago local businesses complained that the K-12
schools were failing to provide graduateso credit card orders!

*********

End of 2000 Publications List

 `ÿÿÿÿ9ÐH÷9Ø9¸€ÿÿï Image1.gif’ÀvŸæ `ÿÿÿÿ9ÐH÷9Øv¨L€ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿa combination of testing (at several key times during K-12) and something
called the Profile of Learning. I'll keep this short. The Profile of
Learning intends that students not merely learn compartmentalized factoids,
but instead that they demonstrate what they have learned by applying their
learning in multi-/cross-disciplinary projects.
The nature of this reform, and your (and my) reaction to it, is not relevant
to my question, however.
Here's the question: Who should be responsible for deciding whether any
curricular reform should be implemented in Minnesota's public schools?
Apparently the answer is, "the state legislature." What possible expertise
do these goofballs bring to the question of what constitutes the best
curriculum in our schools? I'm appalled by the idiocy that I hear coming
from the mouths of my state legislators. Today, for example, one state
representative who had just voted to indefinitely delay implementation of
the reform proclaimed that "If districts still want to use them [i.e., the
Profiles of Learning lesson plans], they can, but if they can think of
something better -- use it."
Well, first of all, this has always been part of the reform. The "lesson
plans" are merely provided as examples, to help teachers; they aren't
required. But this guy is comfortable throwing out 10 years of effort by
people who know education (either by background and training and experience
or by having children in K-12) based on misunderstood "problems" with
implementing the reform. So, for now, Minnesota has gone back to
traditional education -- the same curriculum that has a track record of
failure for too many students.
So, the question remains, whom should we trust to make curricular decisions
about K-12 education? Does a state legislature truly represent "us" and the
best thinking about schooling? If not, then who does?


John W. Gunkler
jgunkler@sprintmail.com


Xxxxxxxxxx


Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
From: teresa@northwest.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Jac Vennix's article in System Dynamics Review


I have not heard of this publication. How can we get it?


Note from the Moderator in reply to Teresa:
The System Dynamics Review is the journal of the System Dynamics Society.
According to the inside cover, "The System Dynamics Review exists to
communicate to a wide audience advances in the application of the
perspectives and methods of system dynamics to societal, technical,
managerial, and environmental problems."
Ms. Roberta Spencer is the Executive Director of the System Dynamics
Society. She will be able to tell you how to buy a copy of this Review
with Vennix article. Her e-mail is <system.dynamics@albany.edu>. Ask The
System Dynamics Review, Vol. 15, No. 4, Winter 1999.


Xxxxxxxxx


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:58:52 -0500
From: David Wheat <dwheat@wheatresources.com>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Who should determine curriculum?


Very interested in John Gunkler's summary of the Minnesota reform effort.
John, do I understand you correctly that the Minnesota Profile of Learning
program is about to be (or has been) set aside, after several years of so-so
implementation efforts?
I'm in Virginia, where we have been implementing Standards of Learning in four
core subject areas, based on rigorous new learning standards adopted in
1995. (I
helped write the history & government standards.) Testing began in 1998, so
this will be our 3rd year of testing. While test scores rose considerably in
1999, the "improvement" was nowhere near what parents were led to expect, and
the unrealistic expectations have begun to undercut support for the
program. So
much attention is now focused on whether schools retain accreditation that the
apparently real improvement in student learning is lost in the shadows. I just
completed a system dynamics analysis of the problem, and the report has had
generated considerable media attention and created quite a stir in Richmond.
Sounds like we can learn something from the Minnesota experience. Please let me
know where I can pull together some details. Thanks.


David Wheat
dwheat@wheatresources.com


k-12sd wrote:
> From: "John Gunkler" <jgunkler@sprintmail.com>
> To: "k-12sd" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
> Subject: Who should determine curriculum?
> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:05:18 -0600
>
> I know Debra Lyneis wasn't focusing on this issue when she wrote:
>
> >>However, that doesn't mean that anyone can/should tell schools what to do
> expecting immediate change and improvement.<<
>
> But it raises a question I'm struggling with right now (emotionally,
> unfortunately, as well as rationally.) I live in Minnesota. For those who
> don't know, about 10 years ago local businesses complained that the K-12
> schools were failing to provide graduates who were adequately prepared to
> work -- high school diplomates who couldn't read, write coherently, perform
> simple math, etc. Instead of merely complaining, however, they developed a
> wide-ranging coalition of educators, parents, business people, etc., to work
> on fixing the problem. After spending millions of dollars they put together
> a wide-ranging system of graduation standards that have been tested for
> three (or more) years in Minnesota public schools. These standards involve
> a combination of testing (at several key times during K-12) and something
> called the Profile of Learning. I'll keep this short. The Profile of
> Learning intends that students not merely learn compartmentalized factoids,
> but instead that they demonstrate what they have learned by applying their
> learning in multi-/cross-disciplinary projects.
>
> The nature of this reform, and your (and my) reaction to it, is not relevant
> to my question, however.
>
> Here's the question: Who should be responsible for deciding whether any
> curricular reform should be implemented in Minnesota's public schools?
>
> Apparently the answer is, "the state legislature." What possible expertise
> do these goofballs bring to the question of what constitutes the best
> curriculum in our schools? I'm appalled by the idiocy that I hear coming
> from the mouths of my state legislators. Today, for example, one state
> representative who had just voted to indefinitely delay implementation of
> the reform proclaimed that "If districts still want to use them [i.e., the
> Profiles of Learning lesson plans], they can, but if they can think of
> something better -- use it."
>
> Well, first of all, this has always been part of the reform. The "lesson
> plans" are merely provided as examples, to help teachers; they aren't
> required. But this guy is comfortable throwing out 10 years of effort by
> people who know education (either by background and training and experience
> or by having children in K-12) based on misunderstood "problems" with
> implementing the reform. So, for now, Minnesota has gone back to
> traditional education -- the same curriculum that has a track record of
> failure for too many students.
>
> So, the question remains, whom should we trust to make curricular decisions
> about K-12 education? Does a state legislature truly represent "us" and the
> best thinking about schooling? If not, then who does?
>
> John W. Gunkler
jgunkler@sprintmail.com


Xxxxxxxxx


Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000
From: Susan Jamback <transchool@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Who should determine curriculum?
To: k-12sd k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu


John, I completely understand your frustration with
elected state officials making decisions for public
schools. However, we, in the schools, have been
really bad at making decisions and taking action
ourselves. Collectively we blame kids,families, the
economy,politics, TV, society, colleges, - the list
goes on and on. I rarely hear us blaming ourselves.
We've had study after study telling us for over two
decades that this (our present model ) isn't working.
I believe we have all the power we need to create
corrective action. States get involved when they get
tired of waiting. Each school can respond if they
decide to commit. We have been playing the victim role
really well. Sue Jamback PS, the only reason that I
am responding to your message is that our students
are on vacation this week. Being committed to school
reform means that each of us has to prioritize and
focus. The work ahead of us is so daunting that there
is little else that we can afford to take part in.
Let's let the states do what they think they need to
do, we could be out ahead of them if we really try.
=====
Sue Jamback


Xxxxxxxxxxxx


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000
From: "RICHARD TURNOCK" <Richard_Turnock@pgn.com>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Who should determine curriculum?
Who's paying for education? Follow the money.
In Oregon, property taxes were reduced and the legislature had to increase
funding for schools. When they starting paying the majority of the costs
they decided in 1992 to pass an educational reform bill.
We're implementing what you described as your proposed reform.


Richard
richard_turnock@pgn.com
Educational Services
www.pge-edsvcs.com
503-464-8503


Xxxxxxxxxx


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000
From: "Nickols, Fred" <FNickols@ets.org>
Subject: RE: Who should determine curriculum?
To: "'k-12sd'" k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu


John Gunkler raises fundamental issues about K-12 education closing with
these questions:
"So, the question remains, whom should we trust to make curricular decisions
about K-12 education? Does a state legislature truly represent "us" and the
best thinking about schooling? If not, then who does?"
Long eons ago, I believe members of the community in which a school was
situated determined what was wanted in the way of education for their
children. Education was pretty much a voluntary thing and the communities
were pretty much agrarian. Then, along came the industrial revolution.
Communities began to be wrapped around centers of commerce and industry.
People moved off the farm and into the factory. The state stepped in and,
in the name of an educated citizenry, education became compulsory. The
community ceased being the customer for the school's product and the
determination of curricula got caught up in a three-way tug of war among
professional educators, politicians and employers. Lost in the shuffle were
the interests of the students and their parents -- collectively, the
community.
With that as a backdrop, my answers to John's questions are as follows:
1. "Whom should we trust to make curricular decisions about K-12 education?"
No one; at least not without some element of local community oversight.
2."Does a state legislature truly represent "us" and the best thinking
about schooling?"
This is a two-part question so it gets two answers:
a. No, a state legislature doesn't truly represent 'us'
(or anyone else for that matter); it represents the interests that the
legislators see as deserving or sufficiently demanding of their attention.
These interests might or might not be ours, theirs, the state's, the
military's or whomever's.
b.No, a state legislature doesn't represent the best
thinking about schooling. Frankly, given that a legislature is essentially
home to political compromise, I doubt it represents the best thinking on
anything, let alone schooling.
--
xxxxxxxx


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000
From: "J. Michael Spector" <Spector@syr.edu>
To: <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Who should determine curriculum?


Okay, I'll bite. Who is responsible for deciding on curricula? Who
should be responsible for deciding? Fingers point, brows wrinkle, egos
swell. Who is responsible? This is either a descriptive inquiry or a
rhetorical remark. As a descriptive inquiry, it will likely have a
complex reply - those who have children are certainly partly responsible
(on almost any interpretation of the word 'responsible'). They elect
school boards and legislators, send letters to editors, create
expectations in students, go to PTA meetings, form book review
committees, and so on.Teachers are certainly partly responsible for
curricula. They recommend, select, modify, sequence, deliver and
evaluate curricula. School administrators are partly responsible since
curricula require resources which must be managed and maintained.
Legislators are partly responsible since they are accountable for state
funds spent. Students are partly responsible since their needs and
desires have an impact, and outcome measures are relevant considerations
in nearly everyone's book. There is clearly disagreement about what
outcomes are desirable, reasonable and achievable. There is also some
agreement with regard to many outcomes.
Are legislators goofballs? I do not know that. I would expect that many
take seriously the notion of fiscal accountability and the apparent
facts that high school graduates are not meeting expectations of society
and are not generally performing well on some measures when compared
with those in other countries.
I do not know who 'us' refers to. I do not know what is the best
thinking about schooling. I do know that there are diverse opinions
about this. I doubt any single or simple reply is adequate. And I
respect those who pro-actively take steps to make improvements so long
as they are willing to conduct independent evaluations and accept
constructive critique. Research on learning effects, replicable studies
and constructive critique are in short supply. It would seem that most
of the stakeholders mostly want to improve schooling most of the time,
although there are differences of opinion with regard to what
consistutes improvement.
Change management in the schools is a slow and evolving process. When
all stakeholders in that process are considered, it becomes a complex
system, not easily amenable to quick and stable fixes. Polarizing and
alienating groups of stakeholders is not likely to be a successful
strategy. It is unlikely that such systems can be remade all at once.
And so on, ad trivium ...
In conclusion, it would be a remarkable coincidence if the limits of
our imaginations happened to coincide with the limits of reality. We
ought to be more humble with regard to what we know and what we can do.
Bite my tongue ...
mike spector
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof. J. Michael Spector (spector@syr.edu / http://idde.syr.edu/)
IDD&E, 335 Huntington Hall (tel +1 315 443 3703 / fax +1 315 443 9218)
Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY 13244 USA


Xxxxxxxx


From: niall.palfreyman@assyst-intl.com
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000
Subject: Re: Who should determine curriculum?


John Gunkler wrote:
> whom should we trust to make curricular decisions about K-12 education?
> Does a state legislature truly represent "us" and the best thinking about
> schooling? If not, then who does?
Hi John,
In England each school has a thing called a Board of Governers, which is a
group
of, say, ten or twelve people comprising teaching staff, parents and sometimes
interested members of the community. This is not the same (as I understand it)
as the idea of a PTA, but is rather a board with political power within and
outside the school. The normal running of their business is at the level of
arranging jumble sales and things, but they are also responsible, for example,
for the hiring of new staff at the school and also for general liaising
with the
education authorities. In your situation they definitely would not be able to
push through the lesson plans against the will of the authorities, but on the
other hand, when an issue arises about which there is widespread strong
feeling,
it's not unheard of for the borads of several schools in an area or even
nationally to communicate with each other to apply pressure at the local
(state)
or national level.
Is there some similar mechanism in the States, or could such "clubbing
together"
between other involved groups be arranged?


Niall.


Xxxxxxxxxxx


Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000
From: Marion Brady <mbrady@digital.net>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Who should determine curriculum?


> .....So, the question remains, whom should we trust to make curricular
> decisions
> about K-12 education? Does a state legislature truly represent "us" and the
> best thinking about schooling?
John,
Although we'd frequently like to disown them, legislators are themselves
products of our classrooms. Their too-frequently-simplistic notions about the
process of educating and about educational reform come from their own
experiences. Sadly, the educational establishment has itself to blame.
(Incidentally, when it comes to stupid, amateurish educational policy, Florida
can match Minnesota legislator for legislator.)
This, of course, doesn't answer your very good question.
Since I've spent more than a third of a century trying to convince the
education establishment via books and journal articles that all knowledge
is part
of a single, comprehensive, systemically integrated structure, a structure
distinct from and not cobbled together from the academic disciplines, in the
interest of promotion I've had to develop a position on the dynamics of change
and the matter of authority.
My view is that, if change is to be significant and permanent, the
assumptions that underlie and support the status quo have to be surfaced and
examined and their inadequacy exposed. And then an alternative set of
assumptions have to be put in place.
This, of course, is far easier said than done. My efforts in this
direction
take the form of 20 weeks of locally run, one-hour-a-week, small group,
"directed" dialog involving all willing stakeholders -- teachers,
administrators,
parents, education reporters, civic leaders, legislators -- anyone who
cares and
can be roped into participation by local leadership.
It's a matter of educating, and the instructional sequence (in my approach,
one new question a week) has to be non-threatening, move in small, logical
steps,
not propose anything that can't be made to mesh with the existing bureaucracy
(staffing, Carnegie units, etc.), and not cost any money to implement.
Participants have to end up "owning" the new ideas and creating a network of
mutual support.
Of course, since almost everyone is looking for a quick fix -- a new law or
policy, the report of a reform committee, a hot-shot consultant who comes
in for
a couple of days to spread charisma -- not many are waiting in line anxious to
invest an hour a week for 20 weeks in an effort to create the kind of critical
mass that has a chance of making a real and permanent difference in what
goes on
in students' heads.
We're in trouble. There's a vacuum. The Goals 2000, "standards"
juggernaut
with its politically appealling emphasis on the application to education of
free-market principles has moved in to try to fill it. There will be marginal
improvement in limited areas, but pursued, the movement will ultimately
prove to
be counterproductive. We'll end up in even worse shape than we're in now.
Marion
--
SUPRADISCIPLINARY, SEAMLESS CURRICULA
http://digital.net/~mbrady/


Xxxxxxxxxx


From: "John Gunkler" <jgunkler@sprintmail.com>
To: "k-12sd" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Who should determine curriculum?
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000


To David Wheat (in particular): No, the Minnesota Profile of Learning has
been set aside after NO years of implementation. It was just about to be
implemented when the state legislature yanked it.
I would be very interested in seeing your system dynamics analysis of the
Virginia situation. Did you create a model that you'd be willing to share?
Perhaps we might take this dialogue out of the discussion group, unless
there are others who wish us to keep it "public." Feel free to contact me
privately or through this forum, whatever you wish, David. Thanks.
 
John W. Gunkler
jgunkler@sprintmail.com


Xxxxxxxxxxx


From: connect@uswest.net
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:27:21 -0700
Reply-To: connect@uswest.net
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Who should determine curriculum?
John,
This is my first posting to the K-12sd listserv. I've been a lurker for some time. I find your question to be most thought provoking. But, I guess my response comes from "outside the box" in that your question only provokes several other questions:
1. What system is currently being used in determining curriculum? 2. What is curriculum ? (Hathorne and Henderson, 1995)
3 Who says so? (Hathorne and Henderson, 1995)
4. Can curriculum be mandated by anyone or does it happen via dialogue? (Applebee, 1999)
5. What is the role of reflective practice in school reform? (Lieberman and Miller, 1999)
I don't pretend to have answers to these questions but I'm currently working on an exploratory study for my dissertation which is focused on curriculum. I'm finding that "curriculum" has a wide range of definitions depending upon with whom you are speaking. Some define it as a philosophy of teaching and learning, others as a set of documents with listed outcomes, yet again others as what takes place between teachers and their students. Maybe all of these are elements within a complex system which in the end results in a definition of curriculum as the lived-through experience of the student. When I ask people to talk to me about curriculum, what they choose to say is revealing. What they choose not to say is equally revealing. Their speech positions them politically, philosophically, and pedagogically.
Just a snapshot of my thinking on the topic at this moment in time. I'm still exploring.
Peter Duckett
Language Arts Coordinator
K-5 Cairo American College
Cairo, Egypt


Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


From: UECKER Ed <Ed.Uecker@ODE-EX1.ODE.STATE.OR.US>
To: "'k-12sd'" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Who should determine curriculum?
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000


All:
This has been a very interesting discussion, but is the question the right
one? In terms of designing a system to deliver an output, shouldn't the
question be WHAT (criteria) should determine curriculum, rather than overly
empowering individuals or bureaucracies whose agendas are not necessarily
the group's? Shouldn't the first consideration be "With what capacities and
skills do we want students to emerge from out of our K-12 systems?" and
then, with that answer(or those answers)in hand, move to answer the "WHAT
should determine curriculum?" question. I mean from an efficiency standpoint
(which includes cost efficiency) the process would be to consult the
customers/stakeholder about what it is they want the OUTPUT to be and then
let the professionals get to work to produce the output in the most
efficient way possible. As long as we agree to entertain needs like "it
CAN'T cost any more money" and "it can't interfere with athletics", we will
never get anywhere because both are irrelevant to the goal. If we want more
capable human beings to result from the process, then capitulation to
quasi-religious economic opinions or fantasy based hedonism are really
irrelevant unless they can be shown to contribute to, rather than impede,
the improved outcome that is the goal of the system. Would we respond to
Congressmen who called in to put a halt to a space shuttle launch because he
didn't like the color white, or because we wanted us to wait for his
daughter's birthday? Those factors are utterly irrelevant to the mission and
would be discounted. If we still live in a democracy, isn't the greater good
more important than the arbitrary self-serving desires of a few? And are
public schools not supposed to serve the greater good?
Then again, maybe not.


Ed Uecker


Xxxxxxxxxx


From: dfoster@cis.com.mx (David Foster)
To: <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Who should determine curriculum?
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000


If acceptable testing standards at a level expected by authorities in
subsbect matters assessed, who cares should students in a particular
district outperform those standards?


Xxxxxxxxxx


Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000
From: Marion Brady <mbrady@digital.net>
To: k-12sd <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject:Who should determine curriculum?


> From: UECKER Ed <Ed.Uecker@ODE-EX1.ODE.STATE.OR.US>
> ..... In terms of designing a system to deliver an output, shouldn't the
> question be WHAT (criteria) should determine curriculum, rather than overly
> empowering individuals or bureaucracies whose agendas are not necessarily
> the group's?.....
Ed


Or, (I think) to put it another way, shouldn't there be an aim / purpose /
goal / objective?
I've been collecting statements of "overarching aims" from posts on
various
listservs (e.g. "Prepare students for democratic citizenship," "Meet student
needs," "Prepare students for useful, satisfying work," "Help students become
culturally literate," etc.) I have more than two dozen that differ enough to
require distinctive instructional materials and methods. How can an
institution
function effectively, much less move toward reform, if there's no consensus on
its purpose?


Xxxxxxxxxxxx


From: KCStarguy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000
Subject: reflection
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu


I saw the question....
5. What is the role of reflective practice in school reform? (Lieberman and
Miller, 1999)
I have created an alternative assessment form called
E.J.A.W.s- (Explorers, Judges, Artists and Warriors)
sheet that I use to thinking and involved the students in reflection when
they use compu\ter simulations, creative activities, robotics and more.
It stresses multiple intelligence modes in assessing what they have worked on.
I have used it for years in my computer camps and my nasa space course.
The downloader link does not work at my site but if you are interested in a
copy to look over and use email me directly - do not send to this listserve.
I have more information at the following website and am posting examples as
well.
? let me know.


Dr. Eric Flescher, (KCStarguy@aol.com)- Educational Technology
Consultant-Multimedia- Adjunct Faculty, Lesley College-Technology Magic and
Worlds to Explore-20 plus ways for using the internet for teaching, learning
and education model http://ada.lesley.edu/faculty/flescher/team1.htm
Project S.I.M. (Simulations, Interdisciplinary internet and Metacognitive
activities)
 
In a message dated 2/25/00 9:24:29 AM, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu writes:
<<
5. What is the role of reflective practice in school reform? (Lieberman and
Miller, 1999) >>


Xxxxxxxxxxxx


From: UECKER Ed <Ed.Uecker@ODE-EX1.ODE.STATE.OR.US>
To: "'k-12sd '" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Who should determine curriculum?
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000


The "king" of "overarching goals" has to be the one that emerged from a
"high level" group of politicians, business folks, community leaders,
administrators and others. "Children should be good". At least it was
unanimous.
Ed


Xxxxxxxxxxx
 
From: UECKER Ed <Ed.Uecker@ODE-EX1.ODE.STATE.OR.US>
To: "'k-12sd '" <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Is it premature to discuss, "Who should determine curriculum"
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000


J.W.F.
THANK you. For ten years now I have watched educators dance round and round
the "big" questions - "WHY are kids disconnecting from school?" being the
foremost. I also have questions about the validity of the observations put
forth in "A Nation at Risk", especially in light of the Sandia Study that
was published, but ignored in 1992. I think if we begin with Ronald Reagan's
1978 quote about his reasons for massive cuts to research dollars in the UC
system,
"I see no reason why the government should subsidize intellectual
curiousity." I think we begin to see some early rumblings about attitudes
toward public education and about intellectuals that put education on the
defensive, from where it is very tought to make progress. I suppose at
least, that's its more subtle a sentiment than "Whenever I hear the word
"intellectual" I reach for my revolver."
I think we in public education need to spend more time talking to kids, and
less time with consultants. Just an idea.
 
Ed Uecker


Xxxxxxxxxxx


Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Lees Stuntz <stuntzln@tiac.net>
Subject: ST&DM conference air fares


For those of you interested in attending the K-12 Systems Thinking
and Dynamic Modeling Conference being held near Portland OR ( 45
minutes from the airport,) at the Skamania Lodge you might be
interested in the coast to coast internet only specials on Southwest
Airlines. The cost is $99 @ way from Providence to Portland. I
assume other East Coast cities are also discounted.
http://www.southwest.com/cgi-bin/buildItinerary2
Lees Stuntz


Lees N. Stuntz
Creative Learning Exchange Phone- 978-287-0070
1 Keefe Road Fax- 978-287-0080
Acton, MA 01720 e-mail- stuntzln@tiac.net
http://sysdyn.mit.edu/cle/


Xxxxxxxxxx


End of February 2000