January 1998

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 08:08:39 +0000

From: Bill Buchanan <waba@scientist.com>

Reply-To: waba@scientist.com

Organization: WABA, Inc.

Mime-Version: 1.0

To: "Jay W. Forrester" <jforestr@MIT.EDU>,

K-12sd discussion sysdyn <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

Subject: Re: Modeling a system versus modeling for a purpose

Reply to Forrester, Richardson, and other interested sysdyn listserv readers:

Let us not forget that what we are trying to do (and have always been trying to do) in general systems theory, and now the complexity sciences ( <http://www.santafe.edu/sfi/publications/> Santa Fe Institute:Publications,), is get at the whole as it reflects some dynamic of the parts. So yes we have to study the parts, but the biggest challenge and the overall goal is to fathom the whole. That is exactly why we use the term "dynamics", because we know that the whole really is more than the "sum" of the parts. This is as true in physics as it is in industry, biology, and virtually any domain (and system) that the human mind tackles. It is how and why nature is what it is. Einstein, e.g., knew this very well and that is why he used the concept of 'unified field'.

Applying this idea to educational systems then one is after the whole system, since that system is only as strong as its weakest link, no matter what we do to strengthen or understand some part or subsystem. And that weak part is fully capable of sending the whole system into chaos or catastrophe. We don't have to look too far, e.g., in the current global economics picture to see what happens when a link (country) is weak.

I happen to like the Baldrige approach as a systemic paradigm of applied systems theory. And I think the education pilot work being done there is very good and has great upside potential for modeling, simulation, and synthesis for diagnostic and design/redesign purposes. This parallels the successful application since its outset in the early '90s of the Baldrige paradigm of system to industry and health care.  Those interested in this work can go to  <http://www.quality.nist.gov/> NISTQuality Program for details.

So let's not get hung up on details, parts, personal attacks, and general cultish pettiness but remember the original purpose of the "why" in systems theory.......to understand wholes and get at the macro picture as some complex function of parts. If we do I think that will move us forward and keep the vitality in our science.

Cheers for the New Year.....Bill Buchanan

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay W. Forrester wrote:

"I was surprised that the communication of Dec. 31 from George Richardson evoked the response by Bill Buchanan.

Perhaps the issue could be resolved by a simple change of one word in George's contribution.  Instead of "it has generally been agreed," a better phrasing would have been, "it has generally been true."

Many things are true that are not widely known, not perceived, and not agreed.

It appears that Buchanan contradicts his own argument in talking about general models of genetics, nervous systems, and brains.  First of all, there are not general models of any of those systems that will answer all possible questions, I am sure that all such models are bounded by certain purposes for which the models were built.  Furthermore, none of them set out to be a general model dealing with all aspects of a complete animal.

I am also troubled by the claim to authority, "I have been a student of general systems theory."  The literature of general systems theory  leads to three questions: Is it general? Is it systems? Is it theory? Rather, it appears to be a disorganized, fluid meeting place for many unrelated ideas that individuals assert have something to do with systems.

On the importance of purpose, what would happen if an engineer attemped to design a general purpose transportation device.  Could one then expect that it would be suitable for going to the grocery store, for flying overnight to Europe, and for the army to use in battle as a tank?

Related ideas are discussed in "Industrial Dynamics" that is available from the Productivity Press:

Forrester, Jay W., 1961. Industrial Dynamics,  Portland, OR: Productivity Press. 464 pp.

A preliminry school model, for a specific purpose, is being devoped by Gary Hirsch,

GBHirsch@aol.com (Gary Hirsch)

who is working on the processes that determine the outcomes when trying to introduce innovations into school systems.  In a few months, his paper should be available from the Creative Learning Exchange web site at sysdyn.mit.edu.

So, now let's turn our attention to New Year's Eve." End of Jay W. Forrester quote.

From: Bill Buchanan



Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 14:47:26 -0500
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Marc Abrams <msa@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Modeling a system versus modeling for a purpose

First, A Happy and Healthy New Year to all.

Bill, I think your missing the point. I think we all _want_ to understand
the _whole_. One of the problems is _defining_ the whole. As George and Jay
tried pointing out, _each_ perspective on a system has ( or could have)
different components attached to it. "Systems" are _relative_ entities not
absolute ones.

Thats my 2 cents :-)

Marc Abrams


Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 12:44:55 +0000
From: Bill Buchanan <waba@scientist.com>
Reply-To: waba@scientist.com
To: Marc Abrams <msa@panix.com>
Cc: K-12sd discussion sysdyn <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Modeling a system versus modeling for a purpose

Marc......

Depends on how one looks at it. How would your thought apply to "unified field
theory", for example. Do you really think there is not an absolute universe,
or that your mind/brain is not absolute? Do you really think Holland, Kauffman
Gell-Mann, et al., are not thinking of absolute order when they write about
"order". Could nature, e.g., ever have evolved us if there were not absolutes
in evolution?

If your answer to any of the above is yes I challenge you to defend that
alternative from a serious systems standpoint. That is what theology has been
trying to do since it was conceived as a paradigm. Science just simply is the
search for absolutes, and systems thinking helps us do that. Could any kind of
thinking be more clear or sensible? I don't think so.

We can apply systems thinking at many levels of abstraction, yes, if that is
what you and others are after. But isn't it more (most) helpful to engage
reality in the largest perspective (not to demean the value of
micro.....nano....analysis). Maybe recasting "system" as "order" is
helpful.......that is certainly what the Santa Fe Institute has done, and
though I'm biased in that direction, I think the move toward the "complexity
sciences" is the natural outgrowth of systems theory evolution. And I think
that is the message that Melanie Mitchell had in mind in her recent Ulam
Lectures at SFI, on where the complexity sciences are headed.

Cheers......Bill.


Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998
From: Richard Turnock <Richard_Turnock@pgn.com>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Guidelines

What are the group guidelines for this mailing list to manage our dialogues? If there isn't
anything written, what are the guidelines currently in use?

Thanks
Richard


Forwarded from Jeff Potash in Vermont:
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:21:34 -0500 (EST)
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: jpotash@together.net (P. Jeffrey Potash)
Subject: Re: Modeling a high school...

Speaking from the vantage point of a humanist and dedicated (albeit still
novice after 7 years) modeler--teacher-student of system dynamics, I'm
concerned that the semantic muddiness caused by unintented overstatement
may divert our attention from a "quality" question, which regards what
members of the k-12 group might consider undertaking to model. Several
unconnected thoughts here:

1) Bill's tone bothers me. No one, as best I can figure, is challenging
anyone's right to model a high school any more than their right to model a
business, community, country, or what have you. What many of us who've
worked with educators have found, though, is that there tends to be a "kid
in the candy store" mindset among many who envisage, having little more
than a perfunctory exposure to modeling, that they can and should build the
elusive "big" model which has all the answers. Those folk, my/our (at the
Waters Center for System Dynamics) experience suggests, either get
frustrated very quickly and bail or, worse yet, develop massive models
which prove undecipherable to anyone other than themselves. Perhaps it is
just my own humanistic bias, but I'm highly uncomfortable with "gurus" who
announce they have "cures" for all the woes which beset any system
(scientists included; the best scientists--and I speak here as the child of
a scientist--know that any "solution" is the foundation for the next
"problem").

2) If, on the other hand, the goal of k-12 folks is (as I belive it should
be) to employ system dynamics as a vehicle for improving the quality of
conversation by explicitly questioning assumptions and for developing a
common language through which everyone in a high school (administrators,
teachers of history, science, et al) can contribute, then--at this moment
in time--we would be far better off grappling with "little" systems or
subsystems which operate within the larger aegis of the "high school
model." Productive subtopics for such conversations, I suspect, might
include issues involving student motivation and progress, issues of time
utilization, and faculty development. All are extremely engaging and, if
properly guided, could yield some non-intuitive insights.

3) One final observation, purely humanistic: Let's try and remind ourselves
that we're still at the beginning of our own learning curve in deciphering
how and where we can use system dynamics effectively to educate ourselves
and our students. As such, we'd be wise to think in terms of planting seeds
with which to reap greater benefits in the future. Thinking small and
building little models which "work" and which help to draw others to join
with us seems like a logical first step. Likewise, we need to listen
carefully (dare I say respectfully?) to professional system dynamicists
like Jay Forrester and George Richardson, who in addition to being able to
draw upon their rich experiences and intellects to help offer guidance have
proven, through their extraordinary contribution of time to educators, that
they are dedicated to seeing system dynamics "work" in education.

Let's work on building a "community" of educational modelers who can
effectively use models to pose better questions and improve the quality of
our collective conversation. Thanks to George Richardson, Jay Forrester,
and Ed Gallagher for helping contribute to that spirit of community!

Happy New Year to All!

P. Jeffrey Potash, Ph.D.
Professor of History
Associate Director of Waters
Center For System Dynamics
Trinity College of Vermont
208 Colchester Ave.
Burlington, VT 05401

Phone: 802-658-0337 ext. 353 (Waters Center) or 431 (Office)
Fax: 802-658-5446


Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998
From: Richard Turnock <Richard_Turnock@pgn.com>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: System Dynamics

Does system dynamics support an environment where learning is discovery through play?

Thanks
Richard


Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Marc Abrams <msa@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Modeling a system versus modeling for a purpose

Bill,

>Depends on how one looks at it. How would your thought apply to "unified
field theory", for example.

I do not know "unified field theory", but I do have an understanding about
educational environments.

>Do you really think there is not an absolute universe,

I don't know if there is or isn't. I think more importantly, does it really
matter. How could _I_ tell the difference between what I _percieve_ and
what is "really" there. Its _all_ perception.

>or that your mind/brain is not absolute?

In what sense?. As a physical entity? Yes, To It's capability or capacity?, No

>Do you really think Holland, Kauffman
>Gell-Mann, et al., are not thinking of absolute order when they write about
>"order".

So?, whats the point? A lot of different people have lots of different
ideas. I didn't know that _they_ have defined the definitive work on this
matter. What am I missing?

Could nature, e.g., ever have evolved us if there were not absolutes
>in evolution?

Sorry, _What_ absolutes are you referring to? Are you referring to the
various natural "laws" some of which have "changed" over the years


>If your answer to any of the above is yes I challenge you to defend that
>alternative from a serious systems standpoint.

Challange away :-), Exactly what is it that I am defending? and excuse my
ignorance, what is the difference between a "serious systems" standpoint
and a "non-serious" one.

snip...
>. Science just simply is the
>search for absolutes, and systems thinking helps us do that. Could any
kind of
>thinking be more clear or sensible? I don't think so.

Thats _your_ opinion, and your intitled to it. I just don't agree with it.

>We can apply systems thinking at many levels of abstraction, yes, if that is
>what you and others are after. But isn't it more (most) helpful to engage
>reality in the largest perspective (not to demean the value of
>micro.....nano....analysis).

Again the questions becomw _Whose_ reality and _What_ perspectives. Bill,
if you and I were going to make a model of a "system" _what_ would it look
like?

>Maybe recasting "system" as "order" is
>helpful..

How would that help?

.....that is certainly what the Santa Fe Institute has done, and
>though I'm biased in that direction, I think the move toward the "complexity
>sciences" is the natural outgrowth of systems theory evolution.

Again, please excuse my igmorance. Besides keeping a bunch of researchers
employed at "prestigous" think tanks like SFI what "contributions" have
been made to our _additional_ understanding of systems from the "complexity
sciences" that people like Forrester, Powers, et al did 40 years ago.

>And I think
>that is the message that Melanie Mitchell had in mind in her recent Ulam
>Lectures at SFI, on where the complexity sciences are headed.

What message was that? :-)

Marc


Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998
To: waba@scientist.com
From: Ed Gallaher <gallaher@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Modeling a system versus modeling for a purpose
Cc: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

Bill Buchanan wrote:
>Marc......
>Depends on how one looks at it. How would your thought apply to "unified field
>theory", for example. Do you really think there is not an absolute universe,
>or that your mind/brain is not absolute? Do you really think Holland, Kauffman
>Gell-Mann, et al., are not thinking of absolute order when they write about
>"order". Could nature, e.g., ever have evolved us if there were not absolutes
>in evolution?
>
>If your answer to any of the above is yes I challenge you to defend that
>alternative from a serious systems standpoint.
etc.

Bill -

I find your comments to be thought provoking, but not very relevant to my
ability to conceptualize and model a school, or my ability to analyze and
consider someone else's model of a school.

I found JWF's transportation analogy to be meaningful. There is a big
difference between the 1980 Honda in which I commute, the 747 in which I
fly from Portland to Boston, the train in which I ride to Seattle, and the
space shuttle, in which I would love to ride.

I do not disagree with your philosophical approach, if indeed you want to
be a philospher. It takes all kinds . . :-)

(I know this phrase often appears to be disparaging, but I really believe
this; it -does- take all kinds. Technicians, engineers, philosophers, etc.)

Perhaps changing the time frame of this discussion, or the intended goals,
would be useful.

If I want to drive to the store to get a quart of milk, and my car is not
working, I need some sort of "model" of my car in order to troubleshoot it.
Is the battery dead? Am I out of gas? Do I have a flat tire? It does not
help me to discuss rocket propulsion with a space shuttle engineer.
Perhaps more to the point, it -definitely- does not help to enter into a
theoretical discussion of magnetic levitation, hydrogen fuel cells, energy
requirement, pollution, electronic highways, etc. These may be perfectly
legitimate topics for the Santa Fe Institute, and to be perfectly honest, I
would enjoy 6 months at the SFI where I could take part in just these sorts
of discussions. But this won't get my car started!

If I want to understand, or influence, the upcoming school levy, I would
like a reasonably useful model of the school district's (or any school
district's) financial status. I could then simulate various scenarios with
or without the levy, and with or without various management decisions
(eliminate music, sports, or system dynamics classes). I wish SFI
Godspeed in developing the "complete" model, but I doubt if it will be
ready in time for the next election.

By the way, it has been a long time since I took physics, but unless I
missed something in the interim we're still waiting for the unified field
theory, aren't we?

Happy New Year! (this is fun . . . )

Ed Gallaher


Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998
From: George Richardson <gr383@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Subject: Reflections on the "modeling a system" discussion
To: k-12 listserve <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

Cool!

Never would I have dreamed that my little note would have generated such a
stream of responses. After seeing everything people have written up to
this point to this list on the subject, I'm pleased to say Dakar managed
to get out of what we've all written what I tried to bring out with my
initial note. Sounds like he can evolve a problem statement that has a
chance of leading toward interesting modeling and analysis that will help
people think about current issues of concern in schools.

As for "general agreement" on the issue of modeling a system, looks like I
spoke from a particular parochial background. My first memory of the
subject was a report from the system dynamics meeting in Geilo, Norway, in
1977 or so, when Jorgan Randers reportedly stood up and asked the
assembled group if anybody there thought one could model a system. [The
answer was important to Jorgan, partly because of his superb thesis on
model conceptualization.] Nobody in that gathering thought you could
model a system, but rather needed a problem to frame the thinking. I then
wrote about model conceptualization in Introduction to System Dynamics
Modeling with DYNAMO from such a perspective. I even included a mildly
irreverant "blues variant:
"A model without a purpose is like a ship without a sail,
A boat without a rudder, a hammer without a nail..."

Over time, those who have tried to teach system dynamics modeling have
evolved guidelines for conceptualization like Ed's. Most attempts trace
back directly or in spirit to Randers' dissertation, and there are modern
extensions of that in publication (a nice collection of them appears in
the last section of two-volume edited collection Modelling for Management
(International Library of Management, Dartmouth Publishing Co., England
and Vermont). Here's a list of what constitutes components of model
conceptualization I talk about with my graduate students:

*Problem focus
*Problem dynamics
*Context
*Audience
*Model purposes
Model boundaries
-temporal
-conceptual
-causal
Aggregation
Reference modes
Initial policy options
Model sectors
Important processes in each sector
Important levels and associated rates in each process and sector
Apparently important feedback loops
Next steps

The *'ed ones are crucial. The rest are helpful things to think about.
If a student tries to think about a model-based study by addressing all of them, the student has a really good start on a process of thinking and modeling that can lead to contributions.

Finally and more philosophically, it does look as if Bill and I are in
quite different intellectual traditions. We're both going in the same
direction, I think, which involves trying to use holistic approaches to
understand complexities that defeat us unless we use such approaches. But
Bill comes from a general systems theory background, and I come from a
system dynamics background. There are dramatic differences to the ways
those backgrounds shape how we see things. I tired to set out a lot of
those differences, and some of the overlaps, in Feedback Thought in Social
Science and Systems Theory (U Penn Press, 1991). From an intellectual
history point of view, I find the distinctions fascinating.

In the end, I'd say anyone who thinks they can build a model of a high
school should charge ahead a try it. From my background and experience,
I'd have to advise a less grand goal -- to pick a particular set of
dynamic problems and proposed policy options for a school to focus the
study -- but that would just be advice intended to prevent a person
attempting what appears to me to be an obvious impossibility.

Let's see what the new year brings for models of (problems of) schools.

Best wishes--

...George

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
George P. Richardson G.P.Richardson@Albany.edu
Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy Phone: 518-442-3859
University at Albany - SUNY, Albany, NY 12222 Fax: 518-442-3398
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From: GBHirsch <GBHirsch@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998
To: gr383@cnsvax.albany.edu
Cc: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Reflections on the "modeling a system" discussion

I generally agree with George's contention that modeling should focus on
problems rather than systems. Good problem-focused work tends to be efficient
in its use of detail, including variables only if they add to understanding of
the problem and dynamics that produce it. Good problem-focused work also
draws broadly on the elements of a system, including all of the pieces that
interact to produce the problem without regard to formal organizational
boundaries. Modeling a system such as a high school quickly becomes messy
around how much detail is necessary to adequately represent the system. Much
detail is often added simply to increase users' comfort level that the model
faithfully represents the real world and may obscure the important dynamics
the model was designed to capture.

That said, there are occasionally reasons to model a system. One situation in
which modeling a system can make some sense is to help people responsible for
managing systems such as high schools or hospitals or companies who may be
facing a rapidly changing environment and even fundamental changes in the
nature of their "business". For example, I've spent the last few years
modeling health care systems in which people are dealing with simultaneous
changes in the way they are paid for care (per capita rather than fee-for-
service) and the manner in which they are organized ("integrated delivery
systems" rather than traditional organizations such as hospitals).

People in these situations tend to be confronted with multiple problems and
have a vague idea that the problems interact and can compound each other, but
have no framework for examining that interaction. They may also have a sense
that actions they take in response to change may create unintended
consequences and new problems. Members of of their organizations may have
very different mental models about the consequences of change and preferred
responses. In these cases, modeling the system can provide a framework for
sorting all of this out, coming to a shared understanding of the problems
facing the organization, and examining alternative strategies for coping.
Clearly modeling a system needs to be done carefully with elements included
only if they add to greater dynamic understanding, not just detail for its own
sake.

I hope these thoughts are helpful. As Jay mentioned in an earlier note, I am
working on a model of innovation in schools (that is difficult enough without
trying to model everything else that is going on). I will be happy to share
this work with those of you who are interested when the work is ready,
hopefully very soon. Please let me know if you are interested.

Gary Hirsch
GBHirsch@aol.com


Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98
To: <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
From: "fred nickols" <fnickols@ets.org>
Reply-To: <fnickols@ets.org>
Subject: The System, The Whole System, and Nothin' but the System

Goodness! All those batteries that came with the Christmas presents must
have been used to juice up the message sending mechanisms. :-)

The postings regarding modeling, specifically the Richardson-Buchanan thread,
are very interesting and quite informative. On the whole, I tend to agree
with problem-centered modeling, especially when the model is a dynamic one.

As some of you know, we've had Jack Homer in here at Educational Testing
Service (ETS) a time or two to lend a hand with some modeling efforts here
(actually, we weren't borrowing Jack's hands so much as renting his head).
We've also done some other kinds of modeling, too.

Example: A few years back, I headed one of the smaller operating divisions
at ETS -- the Custom Operations Division. I modeled the entire division, but
only from a single perspective: its finances. I had a young fellow build me
a huge (and I mean HUGE) spreadsheet detailing the financial workings of the
division. With it, I could play "what if" games and ascertain the financial
impact of almost any move or change that might come down the pike. The first
year of its use saw us bring in the division within $600 of a $6,000,000
budget. This "pinpoint bombing" occurred despite considerable change and
uncertainty. Naturally, I was asked, "How did you do that?" Other managers
oohed and aahed when shown the model and evinced a lot of interest when told
they could have one customized for their division at next to no cost.
However, none took me up on that offer.

My successor used the model for a while and then let it slide from view. The
division itself was dismantled as part of a reorganization a few years ago
and the model's existence has slipped from the memories of all but two
people: me, and the young fellow who built it for me. He has been promoted
steadily since then and is now the area financial controller for our computer-
based testing unit. Me? I wound up as head of strategic planning and
management services. Go figure...

Anyway, I agree that modeling an entire system is probably fruitless and
possibly pointless. On the other hand, modeling all of one aspect of a
system can be very, very productive.

Best wishes for the New Year...

P.S. I commend to you all George Richardson's marvelous book, Feedback
Thought in Social Science and Systems Theory. The differences between the
"systems view" from the perspective of General Systems Theory (GST) and the
perspective of System Dynamics are important and well worth grasping.

Fred Nickols
Executive Director
Strategic Planning & Management Services
Educational Testing Service
Princeton, NJ 08541
(609) 734-5077 Tel
(609) 734-5590 Fax
fnickols@ets.org


Date: Sun, 04 Jan
From: Bill Buchanan <waba@scientist.com>
Reply-To: waba@scientist.com
Organization: WABA, Inc.
To: K-12sd discussion sysdyn <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
To: Gary Hirsch <GBHirsch@aol.com>
Subject: Baldrige educ model

  <http://www.quality.nist.gov/nqpwsmap.htm> Map of the NQPWeb Site <http://www.quality.nist.gov/docs/edpilot/edpilot.htm> EducationPilot Criteria

Gary....
Above is the URL for the Baldrige Education info we discussed. This is my second year qualifying to be an Examiner, so I have been a pretty keen student of their process as well as having had 20 yrs of scientist/practitioner experience applying the essence of the model to higher education and management science with  Silicon Valley clients. The Baldrige scheme applies to all institutional activities, therefore I would consider it a proto-SD/T model/simulation. Hence my enthusiasm about how the sysdyn folks react to it.
Am looking forward to seeing your work in education.
Cheers......Bill.  


Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998
From: Bill Buchanan <waba@scientist.com>
Organization: WABA, Inc.
To: K-12sd discussion sysdyn <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: key contact

Yesterday I received an inquiry message from an individual who has a
title something like Dir. of Strategic Planning and Organizational
Transformation for the Bank of Switzerland. Meantime I seemed to have
lost that information and would like to make contact with him. Would he
please contact me again so we can communicate on the internet. Thank
you.

Bill Buchanan
waba@scientist.com


Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Linda Booth Sweeney <boothsli@hugse1.harvard.edu>
Subject: An Introduction

I hate to interrupt the compelling stream of messages that have been flying
on this list over the past few weeks with a personal introduction however I
don't make a good "lurker". My name is Linda Booth Sweeney and I am
currently a doctoral student at Harvard's Graduate School of Education.
I've worked for the past four years with MIT's Organizational Learning
Center (now Society for Organizational Learning) and out of a desire to
make systems thinking more accessible, have co-authored The Systems
Thinking Playbook (Vol.1 & 2)with Dennis Meadows (Volume 3 is in trial runs
this week).

One goal for my research is to develop better tools and approaches to help
people understand the extent to which they are actually developing
capabilities in systems thinking, individually and collectively. I am
eager to hear from any one on this list who either has experience in
assessing the development of systems thinking skills or who shares this
interest.

Regards, Linda

Linda Booth Sweeney
e-mail: boothsli@hugse1.harvard.edu


Date: Mon, 5 Jan
From: jldutton@iac.net
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: question

Through discussions with my son on his research project on cloning for a Current Affairs class, we found the usual research avenues quite dull (ie NYTimes, Magazines, academic journals, etc.) for such a controversial topic.

Does anyone have any examples of systems work on the ethics of cloning? Although this is a high school project, this district has never heard of ST or SD so the simpler the better. This may be a way in.

Thanks

Janis Dutton


Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:31:08 -0500
To: Linda Booth Sweeney <boothsli@hugse1.harvard.edu>, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Bill Barowy <wbarowy@mail.lesley.edu>
Subject: Re: An Introduction

At 10:57 AM -0500 1/5/98, Linda Booth Sweeney wrote:
>>One goal for my research is to develop better tools and approaches to help
>>people understand the extent to which they are actually developing
>>capabilities in systems thinking, individually and collectively. I am
>>eager to hear from any one on this list who either has experience in
>>assessing the development of systems thinking skills or who shares this
>>interest.
>>
>Linda,

I am across the way from you - I am very interested in what you think of an
article on this topic by Michael Chandler and Robert Boutilier (1992) "The
development of dynamic system reasoning." in *Human Development, 35,*
121-137

Bill Barowy, Associate Professor
Technology in Education
Lesley College, 29 Everett Street, Cambridge, MA 02138-2790
Phone: 617-349-8168 / Fax: 617-349-8169
_______________________
"One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from yourself
and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautiful."
[Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]



Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:15:41 -0500
To: wbarowy@mail.lesley.edu, boothsli@hugse1.harvard.edu,
k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: ggunn@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: An Introduction

Another interesting set of papers on the topic of assessing systems thinking
skills and their cognitive impact can be found at the following website:

http://www.tiac.net/users/sustsol/papers.htm

Enjoy!

Greg Gunn
MIT Sloan

>>At 10:57 AM -0500 1/5/98, Linda Booth Sweeney wrote:
>>>One goal for my research is to develop better tools and approaches to help
>>>people understand the extent to which they are actually developing
>>>capabilities in systems thinking, individually and collectively. I am
>>>eager to hear from any one on this list who either has experience in
>>>assessing the development of systems thinking skills or who shares this
>>>interest.


From: TFYY93A@prodigy.com (MR GEOFFREY F FOUNTAIN)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:47:53, -0500
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Getting Started

I hope to be getting something started up in our school system this
Spring in terms of using a Stella model. Below is where we are at -
just starting - and the resources we have. Any suggestions, words of
advice, or contacts are appreciated.

* one interested science teacher who knows very little about systems
dynamics but is interested

* one catalyst/advocate (me) who also sits on the local education
foundation board and has some time to help and a lot of interest

* two computer whizzes who have volunteered their time and did a
little modeling with ithink a few years ago

* the teacher has reviewed the Stella demo and we are aware of the
Learning Exchange resource website but have not spent much time on it
yet

* funding possibilities: local education foundation (not available
until the fall), private company sponsorship (application needs to be in
by Jan 16th - may not have enough time for this one), other possible
funding sources through Learning Exchange, etc

The next step -
Get the science teacher and the computer volunteers together to discuss
possible applications, timeframes, and funding sources.

Thanks in advance.

Geof


Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998
To: George Richardson <gr383@cnsvax.albany.edu>,
k-12 listserve <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
From: Will Glass-Husain <wilgl@powersim.com>
Subject: Re: Reflections on the "modeling a system" discussion

Hi everyone!

I've been following the "modeling a system" discussion with interest.
Coincidentally, I've been thumbing through my well-worn binder of what I
consider classic system dynamics papers-- I'm trying to prepare a reader
for a course I'm teaching next month.

One favorite is "A Skeptic's Guide to Computer Models" by John Sterman.
(bib. refs at end). While it does not discuss system dynamics in
particular, it is a terrific summary of the system dynamics modelling
philosophy. It contains discussions of mental vs. computer models,
limitations of different modeling paradigms, and the importance model
boundaries and validity. It has an entire section entitled "The Importance
of Purpose" which states "A clear purpose is the single most important
ingredient for a modeling study. Beware the analyst who proposes to model
an entire social or economic system rather than a problem... The art of
model building is knowing what to leave out."

A short essay by Jay Forrester that tackles the issue of purpose from a
different perspective is "'The' model versus a modeling 'process'". In it
he states "models are always in a constant state of evolution... I believe
we are proposing the "Process" of modeling rather than particular frozen
and final models."

Although I don't have my copy handy to quote from, George Richardson's
anthology "Modelling for Management" has a section containing other good
articles on system dynamics methodology.

My own experience is that the intended audience and use for the model are
also important considerations in designing models. A model on business
cycles that a ninth grader will explore is significantly different than a
scenario planning model on plant capacity built for an auto manufacturer.

The trick is to figure out how to elicit these issues (problem, audience,
usage) at the beginning of a modeling project, providing a roadmap of
sorts. This is especially difficult (but more important) in group
settings. George Richardson has published some interesting papers on this.
I've used various techniques in the last 5 years but currently am fond of
pre-modeling facilitation with brightly colored hexagons.

Best regards,

WILL

References
----------
Forrester, Jay W. 1985. "'The' model versus a modeling 'process'," System
Dynamics Review. 1 (1): 133-134.

Sterman, J. 1988. A Skeptic's Guide to Computer Models, in Foresight and
National Decisions, ed. L. Grant. University Press of America, 133. Also
available as D-4101 from the MIT System Dynamics Group.

Richardson, George P. (Editor), Modelling for Management : Simulation in
Support of Systems Thinking (International Library of Management).
Dartmouth Pub. Co. 1996.

Richardson, George P. Group Model Building. [Missing the reference at the
moment. Send me email if interested, I'll dig it up later].
------------------------
Will Glass-Husain
Senior Consultant
wilgl@powersim.com
Powersim-
Simulator Solutions Group
1700 Montgomery Street, Suite 111
San Francisco, CA 94111

Phone: 415-835-9464 (direct)
Fax: 415-954-7147
http://www.powersim.com/services/SSG/


Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Reba <ahmad@mwt.net>
Subject: Introduction

Hello Everyone,

I just joined the list and am introducing myself.

My name is Reba. I live in a small community (about 5,000 people) in
southwestern Wisconsin. My professional background includes experience as a
quality executive in a high tech manufacturing company in the Chicago area.
I am now retired from industry and spend most of my time doing community
service.

My husband telecommutes for Lucent Technologies. He and I have both attended
the MIT inter-sessions on Systems Thinking. We have facilitated the Beer
Game at UW-Madison and in our work environments.

Blending my experience as a Quality professional and interest in Systems
Thinking, I am currently chairperson of the Strategic Planning Committee in
our local school district. I am getting ready to do a series of in-service
workshops for our local school board. In addition, the District
Administrator is interested in a Quality in Education assessment, perhaps
using the Baldridge criteria. One of the SP subcommittees has as it's
strategic objective to improve teacher performance. Another has an objective
to find ways to make education more relevant to students.

I am interested in others' experiences along these lines, as well as in
processes for bringing Systems Thinking into the K-12 school experience. How
does one begin to get teachers interested and educated in Systems Thinking
ideas and teaching methods?

I think this group may be a good forum for sharing these common interests.

Regards,
Reba
Reba & Moody in SW Wisconsin
mailto: ahmad@mwt.net


Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998
From: Bill Buchanan <waba@scientist.com>
Reply-To: waba@scientist.com
To: K-12sd discussion sysdyn <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: seeking assistance

Sysdyn subscribers......
Hasan Zarei, from Iran, per the attached, has expressed a need for
assistance from our profession. Can we help him.

Feel free to tackle this one as you see fit. Meanwhile, I'm thinking of
options from my contact network and experience that could apply.

Thanks.....Bill.

You wrote:
>Got your message but don't know exactly what you're after. Could you
>elaborate for me. Thanks.

Hello >Cheers.......Bill.
I am a Ms student in iran. My course is industeial engineering.
AS you know, We transfer University and Industries, so university can not
supprot Industries and vice versa. Industries transfer technology and
research. U only train students without any pratical works and experiences
that fail in industry.......
I want to construct a dynamic model for analysis of problems between i&u and
finding strategy for improving cooperation.

Happy new year and thanks in advance from your cooperation

Hasan Zarei
-----------------------
My Air Mail is:
Hassan Zareei
Tarbiat Modares University
Po. Box 14155-4838
Faculty of Engineering
Industrial Engineering Department
Tehran
Iran


From: Bill Harris <billh@lsid.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Modeling a High School
To: nlux@MIT.EDU (Nan Lux)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998
Cc: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

Jeff Potash wrote:

> 1) Bill's tone bothers me. No one, as best I can figure, is challenging

Just for clarity's sake, since there have been two Bills who entered into
this conversation, I might suggest writing "Bill B.'s tone ..." or "Bill
H.'s tone ...." I don't mind if it were my tone you had a problem with;
I'd just like to know for sure (I currently suspect it is the other Bill,
since he wrote more).

Regards,

Bill H.
Bill Harris Hewlett-Packard Co.
R&D Engineering Processes Lake Stevens Division
domain: billh@lsid.hp.com M/S 330
phone: (425) 335-2200 8600 Soper Hill Road
fax: (425) 335-2828 Everett, WA 98205-1298


Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998
From: George Richardson <gr383@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Subject: Re: seeking assistance
To: Bill Buchanan <waba@scientist.com>
Cc: K-12sd discussion sysdyn <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>,
Ali Mashayekhi <mashayek@IND.SHARIF.AC.IR>

One of the finest system dynamics modelers in the world is in Tehran --
that's Ali Mashayekhi. Hasan Zarai should find him. His address is

Institute for Research in Planning and Development
P.O. Box 11365, 193
Tehran, Iran

I've copied this note to Ali so he will know to expect a note from you
with Hasan's address or a note from Hasan himself.

...GPR

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
George P. Richardson G.P.Richardson@Albany.edu
Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy Phone: 518-442-3859
University at Albany - SUNY, Albany, NY 12222 Fax: 518-442-3398
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Bill Buchanan wrote:
> Sysdyn subscribers......
> Hasan Zarei, from Iran, per the attached, has expressed a need for
> assistance from our profession. Can we help him.
>
> Feel free to tackle this one as you see fit. Meanwhile, I'm thinking of
> options from my contact network and experience that could apply.
> Thanks.....Bill.


From: DLedingham <DLedingham@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Schools as Learning Organizations

I haven't made a contribution to the list for a while but had an experience
today which I feel is of some relevance to the development of schools as
learning organizations.

On Monday I took up a position as an acting headteacher (the headteacher was
taken ill during the Christmas holiday) of a medium sized secondary school.

At a staff meeting convened before my arrival the establishment of a Staff
Association was discussed. The key point discussed at the meeting was whether
or not senior staff should attend meetings of the association. Many coherent
points were made in support of both sides of the argument, although there was
agreement that the presence of senior staff would inhibit open debate about
school issues. I suggested that I perceived myself to be a member of staff
and that I would like to be able to attend the meetings in person as I could
only get a flavour of people's concerns if I was actually present, rather than
through a third party or a record of the meeting. I also stressed that I hoped
staff would feel comfortable saying anything about my behaviour in my
presence, although I did recognise that they hadn't got to know me or
establish a trusting relationship.

The issue came to a vote (by the way I had invited a senior head of department
to chair the meeting). The staff were split, almost exactly down the middle,
on the matter. It was at this point that I would like to think I put my
knowledge of Learning Organizations into practice, I suggested that it might
be better to begin the Staff Association without senior members of staff being
present. I stated that I hoped that in time the staff Association would
evolve to a point to where it would regarded as unnecessary to keep senior
staff out of the meeting as staff would feel just as comfortable expressing
their opinions on a face to face basis as they would in a public meeting in
the presence of senior staff.

As you may have guessed there is some baggage to contend with in respect of
relationships between senior management and the staff but I sincerely believe
that the only way we can truly develop a learning organization is to learn to
trust one another. Perhaps today's decision will prove to be a starting point
in that tranformational process. On the other hand it might be that the staff
association acts as a further wedge between the staff and the senior
management. Nevertheless, I believe it is a risk worth taking and one which
carries the chance of a much higher reward than if we had forced through a
decision where 50% of the staff did not want the senior staff to be present.

I must hasten to add that this singular gesture will not operate in splendid
isolation but will be supported by a range of simialy motivated decisions and
behaviours.

I will let you know how things develop over the next few months but it will
certainly prove, if nothing else, to be a fascinating journey.

I look forward to your observations.

All the best

Donn Ledingham
dledingham@aol.com


Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998
From: Mark Shirley <shirley@parc.xerox.com>
Reply-To: shirley@parc.xerox.com
To: George Richardson <gr383@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Cc: K-12sd discussion sysdyn <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: seeking assistance

George Richardson wrote:
> One of the finest system dynamics modelers in the world is in Tehran --
> that's Ali Mashayekhi.
> <snip>

Hello,
This question was suggested by your comment above:

Can anyone on this list point me at a description of the qualities
that make a fine system dynamics modeler?

What separates an expert from a good modeler? By analogy, one
characteristic that separates great concert musicians from good
ones is their ability to interpret music - to amplify or adapt
the composer's intent in ways that aren't captured in musical
notation. What characteristics or abilities distinguish expert
modeling?
Thanks,
Mark Shirley


Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98
From: Dan Compton <Dan_Compton@mail.intel.com>
To: gr383@cnsvax.albany.edu, shirley@parc.xerox.com
Cc: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: RE: seeking assistance

1) Modelers see the big picture.
2) Modelers excel in visual spatial intelligence (H. Gardner)
3) Modelers are divergent thinkers.
4) Modelers enjoy thought experiments.
5) Modelers can't stay on task.
6) Modelers never finish a model; they are dragged away kicking and screaming.
7) Modelers think in parallel.
8) Modelers think with the symbols of the modeling system used.
a) C programmers model in C.
b) Einstein did not modeled in tensor notation.
c) Artists model in the symbols of their art. (paint, clay, dance, music,
chess pieces, diving board, etc.)
d) SD modelers model in causal loop and stock and flow diagrams. (but if
the truth be known the SD modelers already have a sophisticated symbol system
they think with, and simply translate for the sake of standardization.)
9) Modelers are always modeling something.
10) Modelers do not have to have lists of ten.
11) Modelers are patient.
12) Modelers are strategic.
13) Modelers relish new ideas and can't wait to try them out on an old model.
14) Modelers don't charge enough for their models.
15) Modelers aren't as smart as they are gifted at being visionary and showing a
part of what they see in a model.
16) Modelers continue to learn from their models long after others have lost
interest.
17) Modelers honor the tools that bring life to their thoughts.
--Dan Compton


George Richardson wrote:
> One of the finest system dynamics modelers in the world is in Tehran --
> that's Ali Mashayekhi.
> <snip>

Hello,
This question was suggested by your comment above:

Can anyone on this list point me at a description of the qualities
that make a fine system dynamics modeler?

What separates an expert from a good modeler? By analogy, one
characteristic that separates great concert musicians from good
ones is their ability to interpret music - to amplify or adapt
the composer's intent in ways that aren't captured in musical
notation. What characteristics or abilities distinguish expert
modeling?
Thanks,
Mark Shirley << File: External.TXT >>


Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998
To: shirley@parc.xerox.com, K-12sd discussion sysdyn <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
From: Bill Barowy <wbarowy@mail.lesley.edu>
Subject: Re: seeking assistance

At 4:02 PM -0800 1/7/98, Mark Shirley wrote:

>notation. What characteristics or abilities distinguish expert modeling?

High salary and good investments. ;-)

Bill Barowy, Associate Professor
Technology in Education
Lesley College, 29 Everett Street, Cambridge, MA 02138-2790
Phone: 617-349-8168 / Fax: 617-349-8169
_______________________
"One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from yourself
and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautiful."
[Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]


From: Niall Palfreyman <niall@assyst-intl.com>
Subject: Re: Schools as Learning Organizations
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98

Hi,
I am a total beginner in System dynamics, and have so far had no possibility of doing more than fiddling with bits of paper when thinking about systems models (I have no PC, no systems modelling package on my UNIX system). Consequently I often feel a little overawed by contributions on this forum by people in the "mainstream" of modelling large systems. However I was delighted to see Donn Ledingham's contribution, which displayed the use of systems thinking in everyday decision-making.

Thanks very much, Donn.
Niall.
Have fun!

Niall Palfreyman Niall.Palfreyman@assyst-intl.com
assyst GmbH, Henschelring 15a
85551 Kirchheim bei Muenchen Tel: ++49-89-90505-230
Germany. Fax: ++49-89-90505-102/3


From: prabhu.r.p.g.q.p.guptara@ubs.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98
Subject: Re: Modeling a High School
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Cc: nlux@MIT.EDU

I feel it is good manners for us to distinguish between expressing our adherence
to any philosophical position we may hold and any particular argument or course
of action we recommend. Whatever I have to say must stand or fall on the merit
of what I say, not on whether it comes from a Hindu, Humanist, Materialist or
any other philosophical framework....though of course I am not asking list
members to hide their particular philosophical allegiance.

I don't know how other list members feel about this, I am merely expressing what
I feel about this issue, for discussion


Professor Prabhu Guptara
Group Director, Organisational Learning & Transformation
Union Bank of Switzerland
Wolfsberg
CH-8272 ERMATINGEN
Switzerland
tel: +41-71-6635.605
fax: +41-71-6635.590
e-mail: prabhu.guptara@ubs.ch


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Wstroup@mail.utexas.edu
Subject: introduction and a question
Cc: Wstroup@mail.utexas.edu

==== Warning!! - Long Introduction ======

All,

Although I've only recently subscribed to this listserv, there is a sense
I've been 'lurking' at the edges of the systems dynamic community for a
while. I write this intro. now with the hope that I might help and/or
collaborate with some of you on current projects or projects that may
emerge in the future. Some of you I have had the pleasure of meeting at
various times over the last decade or so. A little history and some
references are included below. At the end there IS a question, so some of
you might want to skip the blather in-between and jump to the question.

Somewhere in my past I earned a degree in physics (with substantial work in
philosophy as well). After doing some low-temperature research in physics,
I was funded by the National Endowment for the Humanities to write a
monograph on the Bohr-Einstein controversy in quantum physics. Shortly
after completing that I started teaching at the secondary level and a
couple of years into this I first encountered STELLA at a workshop given by
Kemeny's daughter (how she introduced herself) at Exeter in the summer of
198 or '87. Since then my work has been focused on a long term effort to
help systems thinking and learning become a core component of all students'
learning, including the learning in formal schooling.

For the last four or five years (while completing a doctorate in education
at that 'other' institution of higher education located up the river from
MIT) I've been heavily involved in large scale urban reform efforts
(especially at the middle and early high school grade levels) and have
worked for various organizations including the National Science
Foundation's Systemic Reform initiatives in Boston and Bob Moses' Algebra
Project (also in inner-city Boston). The question at the end of this note
relates to recent efforts -- especially at the NSF (although the Baldridge
connection was news to me) -- to understanding the problem(s) of 'systemic
reform' within a systems framework.

After the workshop on STELLA, did I continued working as a teacher but
switched venues to a school located in the greater Boston area. My
interest in systems theory combined with my physics background and my
teaching assignment to result in the authoring of a complete ninth-grade
science course:

Vis Viva: A Conceptual Investigation of Energy and Entropy.
Full text, software and support materials for a year-long
Middle-School science curriculum.
(Developed and implemented 1990 - present).

Of course any discussion of systems theory in the context of energy and
entropy considerations almost requires one to 'stray' into the work of
Prigogine and the framework(s) associated with General Systems Theory. GST
folks seem to have a much more detailed and direct connection to the
'cognitive revolution' in learning theory (Prigogine meeting with Piaget's
group, Piaget and Bertalanffy referencing each other) than researchers in
the systems dynamics framework (Nancy Roberts, excepted of course) but I
will note that I did hear Senge at a conference at Concord Academy suggest
that engaging cognitive/developmental research was to be a important next
step in his learning organization work. So I might be very wrong in this
impression.

Whatever is the case regarding priority and degree of involvement with
cognitive approaches to learning among systems researchers, I applied to
Harvard to study how issues of 'reversibility' and 'path independence'
figured in theories of cognition and systems learning (Piaget, for example,
emphasizes reversibility and path independence as decisive in
characterizing the formal operational stage of thought). My advisor (Judah
Schwartz, prof. of enginieer at MIT and prof. of education at Harvard) was
very supportive of this work -- in principle -- but noted, with a
very-knowing chuckle, "you'll never graduate". Graduating seemed like a
good idea, so I put on hold the larger systems agenda and focused in on an
area that I suspect many of you have struggled with in your work with
learners (of all ages) in system dynamics modeling: how do learners
understand the relationships between rates and amounts (what I now call
'how fast' and 'how much' to avoid the urge to default to formal
definitions) and how do these understandings develop or change in relation
to working in selected computational settings. My work with STELLA with
young learners in school had suggested that emphasizing the editable
graphing features of the rendering of the flows (and other quantities) was
more powerful for the learners than using traditional 'symbolic'
expressions. In the context of working with learners in the STELLA
environment, the question then focuses on how learners understand the
relationships between graphical representations of stocks and flows and how
these understandings develop. There are some interesting ways in which
these issues also interact with learners notions of time (e.g. Is a 'long
trip' refering to distance or time?; Is a 'fast trip' refering to rate or
time?) My doctoral work focused on these issues (issues related to what I
now call 'qualitative calculus') and was done with the hope that I might
someday be able to return to the larger systems learning project.

The reference for the thesis is:

Embodying a Nominalist Constructivism: Making Graphical
Sense of Learning the Calculus of How Much and How Fast.
June, 1996: Harvard Graduate School of Education.

During my doctoral work I co-authored a paper on systems theory and science
education with a researcher from Israel. Some of you may be interested:

General System Theory: Toward a Conceptual Framework for Science
and Technology Education for All. Journal of Science
Education and Technology, 2(3), 447-459. (with D. Chen) (1993)

Returning to a more 'macro' level, I'm now at the University of Texas in
Austin helping to start a research center focused on developing and
articulating new approaches to systemic reform. The center has a planning
grant from the NSF and is closely associated with the various Systemic
Initiatives (both Urban and Rural) also funded by the NSF. My question may
be seen as connected to the recent conversations about modeling schools (or
modeling school-related problems). Does anyone know of someone with a
system dynamics background who might be willing to meet with a very senior
group of researchers, policy types (including a few superintendents from
large urban school districts), and others for a design/systems thinking
retreat this spring (possibly at or near the Santa Fe Institute, depending
on planning etc.)? Who might you all suggest *should* be at such a retreat
focused on Systemic Reform? Are there any authors whose articles might be
particularly salient to the issues of education reform (allowing for
cross-context isomorphisms)? I am aware of the work Gordon Brown did in
the Catalina system, so quite possibly the person might come from that
work. The focus is on large-scale policy frameworks (appreciating that
this distinction between large and small is always relative) that are
informed by or draw on system frameworks in a way that might connect well
with large-scale education reform. Someone on this listserv may be the
perfect person, so please don't hesitate to nominate yourself or each
other.

In the future I might bug you all again for suggestions/connections to
learning systems thinking at the 'micro' level of classrooms, but that's
another proposal for another day. I've followed with a good deal of
interest the work of the CC-STADUS/CC-SUSTAIN Project and would be looking
to do something of that sort using very new hand-held computing devices and
network technologies now being designed for school classrooms. But that's
another conversation...

Sorry to have taken up so much space!

Best Regards,

Walter M. Stroup
Assist. Professor of Education
University of Texas at Austin
Department of Curriculum
and Instruction
Austin TX 78712-1294
(512) 471-3747
WStroup@Mail.UTexas.Edu


Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: nprice@k12s.phast.umass.edu (Norman Price)
Subject: stella and versim webs in one place

>1.You may download the runtime/demo version of STELLA from the High
>Performance System web site. http://www.hps-inc.com
>
>2.This is a different way of modeling, but saw your message and thought I'd
>give you a pointer to StarLogo, a modeling environment for decentralized
>systems. You can check out the home page at
>http://www.media.mit.edu/~starlogo In particular, if you go to "projects"
>and follow the links to various subjects you might find some interesting
>examples. This software was developed at the MIT Media Lab and is
>available free of charge over the web....
>
>3.As you may already be aware, the Creative Learning Exchange serves as a
>"clearinghouse" for materials relating to "systems thinking" in the
> classroom. They can be reached at 508-287-0070 or
>http://sysdyn.mit.edu
>
>4. Schools looking for system dynamics software should probably take a look
>at the new version of Vensim PLE, available to educators and their
>students for free. One can down load it from
>http://news.std.com/vensim/VENPLE.HTM
>
>...GPR
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>George P. Richardson G.P.Richardson@Albany.edu
>Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy Phone: 518-442-3859
>University at Albany - SUNY, Albany, NY 12222 Fax: 518-442-3398

Norman Price
Science Department
Amherst Regional Middle School
170 Chestnut Street
Amherst, MA O1002


Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Linda Booth Sweeney <boothsli@hugse1.harvard.edu>
Subject: Obtaining the Playbook

Hello all - I've hesitated to mention the Systems Thinking Playbook on this
list because I haven't wanted to "advertise" -- however, I received a
number of requests for information about how to get the Playbook so here it
is:

You can order it directly from Luisa Fowler at this e-mail address:

lgf@christa.unh.edu

Or you can get more information from this web site:

http://www.unh.edu/ipssr/Playbook.html

If you are an educator, please ask for the educator's discount. Volume III
should be read by the end of June. We are always eager to here how the
Playbook is being used (what works, what doesn't) so please let us know.

My best, Linda

Linda Booth Sweeney
e-mail: boothsli@hugse1.harvard.edu


Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998
To: Download.CLExchange.from.the.web:;@tiac.net, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Lees Stuntz <stuntzln@tiac.net>
Subject: CLExchange available

The latest CLExchange is now available in Adobe Acrobat format at
the System Dynamics in Education Web site. The URL for that is
http://sysdyn.mit.edu/cle/ . The newsletter includes, at the end, a
description and registration for the Systems Thinking and Dynamic Modeling
Conference for K-12 Education which is being held June 28-June 30, 1998, at
the New England Conference Center, University of New Hampshire, Durham, New
Hampshire.
Please tell me if there are any problems downloading or reading the newsletter.

Lees N. Stuntz
Creative Learning Exchange Phone- 978-287-0070
1 Keefe Road Fax- 978-287-0080
Acton, MA 01720 e-mail- stuntzln@tiac.net

Please note change of area code.


Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: System Dynamics Society <system.dynamics@albany.edu> (by way of Nan
Lux)
Subject: REMINDER - 1998 International System Dynamics Conference

Note from Nan:
The S.D. Society is planning special parallel sessions for the K-12 topic
at this Conference. I have volunteered to act as co-ordinator, so please
let me know if you have any questions or suggestions!
Thanks, Nan Lux, nlux@mit.edu
________________________
REMINDER - DEADLINE FOR ABSTRACTS IS FEBRUARY 1, 1998

CALL FOR PAPERS

1998 INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM DYNAMICS CONFERENCE

Quebec Hilton, Quebec City, Canada
July 20 - 23, 1998

Plenary sessions will emphasize state-of-the-art applications and
methodological advances in simulation modeling and systems thinking.

Contacts:
R. Joel Rahn, Conference Chair, 3460 De Nevers, Ste-Foy, Quebec,
Canada G1X 2E1 (E-mail: rjrahn@microtec.net or joel.rahn@osd.ulaval.ca)

Alexander Pugh, Program Chair, 49 Bedford Road, Lincoln, MA 01773, USA
(E-mail: JandJpugh@aol.com)

Abstracts are due February 1, 1998.


Date: Tue, 13 Jan
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Mind Science Education Project <msfep@onr.com>
Subject: ST-K12-Quebec

Dear all,
IMHO, I'd consider extremely useful if there could be some teacher
presentations regarding the use of ST/SD in K-12 education in the context
of this SD Int'l Conference. I don't know if there will be enough time for
ellaborating the abstracts, but I'm sure that some concurrent presentations
could and should be planned.
Personally, I'm trying to get funds for attending the Conference, but I'm
not sure yet.
Be well...
Fabian Szulanski


Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998
To: Richard Turnock <Richard_Turnock@pgn.com>
From: Mind Science Education Project <msfep@onr.com>
Subject: Re: System Dynamics
Cc: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

Yes it does.
When a complete system dynamics model is tied with a Graphic User Interface, a Facilitator Manual, a Users Manual, and briefing and debriefing material, it becomes a SD Based Interactive Learning Environment (SDBILE), which is basically a resource that is used for learning by doing, and for learning as discovery through play, among multiple educational purposes, within the conceptual framework of learner centred learning.
Sometimes the ILE are called games or simulation games.
Be well...
Fabian.

At 12:27 PM 1/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Does system dynamics support an environment where learning is discovery through play?
>
>Thanks
>Richard


From: "ENZO BIVONA" <enzo.bivona@ifi.uib.no>
To: <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Hallo !!!!!!!!
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998

Hallo,

I'm Enzo Bivona an Italian guy, at the moment in Bergen to study System
Dynamics.
I've a management background, and I'm looking for developing my skills to
better understand and manage complex systems.
I've worked in a SD model for one Wine Industry-Case study (please, if
has anyone information about this sector contact me, thanks a lot ), but
I'm
interested in all sectors.
I'll be happy to exchange suggestions, comments, models with all people
that are really interested !!!!!
I think one way to learn more is to discuss more and more.
I take the occasion to say Happy 1998 (for you and your family).

Enzo.

-------------------------------------------------------
Enzo Bivona
Master Student in System Dynamics
University of Bergen - Norway
enzo.bivona@ifi.uib.no
Phone : 00+39+92574522 - 00+47+55276675


From: "ENZO BIVONA" <enzo.bivona@ifi.uib.no>
To: <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: ANNOUNCE International Seminar on Business Management
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998

Dear friends,

I'm pleased to inform you that from the next 25th to 30th May 1998, in
Palermo will be 2nd System Dynamics International Seminar.
If anybody is interested can visit the following address
http://www.unipa.it/~bianchi

Enzo.

P.S.
Below you find the announcement of the main responsable of the System
Dynamics Group (SDG) - University of Palermo

---------------------------------------------------------

Dear System Dynamicists,

I am pleased to announce that System Dynamics Group (SDG) - University of
Palermo and CUSA will organize a seminar on the subject: "Small Business
Growth: a System Dynamics perspective".
The seminar will be held in Palermo on 30th May 1998 and will consist of a
plenary morning session and four parallel afternoon sessions.
Among invited speakers for the plenary are:
Prof. Paal Davidsen (University of Bergen)
Prof. John Morecroft (London Business School)
Prof. Graham Winch (University of Plymouth)
The afternoon parallel sessions will be on:
- Financial modelling for business reporting
- Modelling "soft" strategic business variables
- Modelling innovation processes in small firms
- Modelling for entrepreneurial learning.
Contributors for the parallel sessions are invited to submit their papers
according to the guidelines specified in the SDG - University of Palermo
WEB page (http://www.unipa.it/~bianchi).
Those people who are interested in the seminar's intended schedule can
easily get more information from the above mentioned internet address.

The seminar will conclude the 5-day intensive programme on: "Dynamic
Modelling for Small Business Growth Management" that will be also organized
by SDG-University of Palermo and CUSA.
More information on the S.D. intensive programme are also available from
the WEB page.

For any question and/or suggestion, please contact me.

Carmine Bianchi
Assistant Professor of Business Management
University of Palermo (ITALY)
Faculty of Economics
bianchi@unipa.it
Tel.: +39.91.6254313 - 6254532
6374869 (home)
-------------------------------------------------------
Enzo Bivona
Master Student in System Dynamics
University of Bergen - Norway
enzo.bivona@ifi.uib.no
University Of Palermo - http://www.unipa.it/~bianchi
Phone : 00+39+92574522 - 00+47+55276675


Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998
From: Richard Turnock <Richard_Turnock@pgn.com>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: mailing list maintenance - unsubscribe

If you would like to change your email address or
unsubscribe, please only write directly to Nan Lux
at: nlux@mit.edu


Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998
From: George Richardson <gr383@cnsvax.albany.edu>
To: k-12 listserve <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>

I am looking at the recent messages to this list and the recent spate of
requests to be taken off the list and am wondering if the list is losing
its focus.

This list is for people interested in the problems and potential of
teaching systems thinking and system dynamics to grade school and high
school children. We should try to keep our messages aimed at that group.

There is another more general listserve for system dynamics issues,
managed by Bob Eberlein (con't recall the exact address, but \i can send
you the subscription info if you email me directly ((NOT the list).

...GPR

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
George P. Richardson G.P.Richardson@Albany.edu
Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy Phone: 518-442-3859
University at Albany - SUNY, Albany, NY 12222 Fax: 518-442-3398
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 20 Jan
To: Reba <ahmad@mwt.net>, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Bill Barowy <wbarowy@lesley.edu>
Subject: Re: Introduction

At 11:33 AM -0600 1/6/98, Reba wrote:

>I am interested in others' experiences along these lines, as well as in
>processes for bringing Systems Thinking into the K-12 school experience. How
>does one begin to get teachers interested and educated in Systems Thinking
>ideas and teaching methods?

Reba,
Another way to approach the work ahead is to think of your local school
district as a system, of course embedded within another system. Making
change in one thing only, like trying to improve the performance of the
teachers, can percolate to other parts of the system, but on the other
hand, might also be resisted by a system having reached some temporary
equilibrium.

The teachers I have worked with so far are very interested in having
materials and lessons that they can use for their own students, ability
appropriate, and curriculum relevant.


Bill Barowy, Associate Professor
Technology in Education
Lesley College, 29 Everett Street, Cambridge, MA 02138-2790
Phone: 617-349-8168 / Fax: 617-349-8169
_______________________
"One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from yourself
and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautiful."
[Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]


Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998
From: Ian Yorston <network.radley@rmplc.co.uk>
Organization: Radley College, OX14 2HR, UK
To: k-12 listserve <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Using Stella for Science Teaching

I'm new to the group. I teach Physics to 13 - 18 year old boys at an
English Public School (ie private school...) just south of Oxford;
mainly pretty able students.

I used to be an Electronic Warfare Officer in the Royal Air Force
(Desert Storm etc) but I live a quieter life nowadays trying to bring
modern technology into Physics (and more general Science) teaching.

Systems Dynamics (primarily through Stella 5.0) is one of the most
exciting ideas that I have come across in my five years of teaching and
we have just acquired a School Licence.

So, I'm after sources of Physics specific models. I found a few at the
Creative Learning Exchange but I'm keen for more.

As I have a background in Systems programming (I could tell you - but
I'd have to kill you etc etc) I'd be willing to team up with any other
physicists out there willing to build a suite of tools.

Just for the record - we also work with Electronic WorkBench,
InterActive Physics and Crocodile Clips.

Enthusiasm willingly reciprocated; and if you appreciate Dilbert's
little phhbwt theory we should get along just fine ! (and, hey, you
might even get to visit Oxford...)

Regards
Ian Yorston

------------------------------------------
> And then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel,
> And shining morning face, creeping like snail
> Unwillingly to school.

> As You Like It - William Shakespeare 1564-1616

------------------------------------------
e-Mail Replies:
I generally look at e-mail daily. Apologies if you don't hear
back from me straight away. Any real problems - try Snail mail.

Ian and Caroline Yorston
2 Church Walk
Radley College
Oxon, OX14 2HW.
[United Kingdom]

Fax/Tel UK (+44) - (0)1235 520081


From: "PASS FOUNDATION" <linctruth@apc.net>
To: <k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu>
Subject: Introduction to Larry
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998

Dear Group,

Thank you for the opportunity to introduce myself. My name is Larry
Maurer. A few years ago I sold my CPA practice to set out on a journey to
inspire young people to tap into their own deep wisdom. We teach what we
need to know and this too is my path. So often I have read others' books
and listen to others' wisdom only to find it wasn't my own deep truth.

Last year, I created a non-profit, PASS Foundation (Professionals Assisting
Students to Succeed) to bring together the best role models in the Orange
County, California, with the objective of inspiring young people to know
and then share their own authentic human experience (did anyone in the
group see the movie, Liar, Liar with Jim Carrey? It's hard to be in your
truth as that story so beautifully portrays.

We developed an idea, called A Job Well Done, to bring a much needed
perspective to the classroom - yours. We felt that people like yourself
whose lives exemplify superlative standards of quality, service and
ethical values were the raw materials for our effort.

The students I work with are challenged to say the least, many of them
lacking even the basic curiosity it takes to make a contribution to
themselves and to an organization. To the unmotivated child, a systems
awareness might give them the extra edge it takes to see how important they
are to the way of things. My own belief is that we are inherently a
system, self-renewing, self-transcending. Did anyone in the group see the
movie, Mindwalk? That's what really inspired me to be still and share from
own system dynamics.

From the standpoint of studying the systems dynamics principles, I am a
beginner (first introduction -Fifth Discipline, Peter Senge) and I must
confess I face a challenge to find its use in the way I have seen it
presented: It is very complicated, very mental and distracts me from
understanding my own system dynamics. I have always believed that if you
understand self, you understand the universe. From the internet, I
downloaded an article with a title that appealed to me: Systems Thinking
in 25 Words of Less. In fact, it was hundreds and hundreds of words.

I am happy to listen to others who have advanced further down the path and
now find it useful. But my first impresssion is: how are K-12 youngsters
going to understand this stuff? How about teaching them self-awareness,
instead?

Regards and thank you for a warm introduction, Nan,

Larry Maurer,
President
PASS Foundation


Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998
From: Richard Turnock <Richard_Turnock@pgn.com>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Students and system dynamics

Welcome, Larry Maurer!
Congratulations on making the transition from business to supporting education!

You asked "How are K-12 youngsters going to understand this stuff? How about teaching them self-awareness, instead?"
Example: Tim Joy at LaSalle high school in
Oregon developed a STELLA model based on the
book "Lord of the Flies". The students read the
book and score the characters, chapter by chapter,
on whether they are "Civil" or "Savage". The result
is a graph by chapter. Fantastic learning
experience for the students to learn about "self"
and system dynamics!

Another example is in "The Fifth Discipline Fieldbook", page 242, The Ladder of Inference. Using this tool improves personal communication through reflection. This tool helped me understand why people criticize others and how to deal with criticism by stepping other people back down their ladder.

Thanks
Richard


Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998
From: Richard Turnock <Richard_Turnock@pgn.com>
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: modeling

A K12 math teacher asked me "Can STELLA model chaotic systems?"
Anyone run into this before?

Thanks
Richard


Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998
To: Richard Turnock <Richard_Turnock@pgn.com>
From: Mind Science Education Project <msfep@onr.com>
Subject: Re: modeling
Cc: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu

At 10:11 AM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>A K12 math teacher asked me "Can STELLA
>model chaotic systems?"
>Anyone run into this before?
>
>Thanks
>Richard

Yes it can.
Dr Erik Mosekilde of the Technical University of Denmark has worked intensely in that area, even in some papers co-authored by Dr. John Sterman. Dynamic models can generate chaos under a range of parameter values.
I'd refer you to the SD bibliography available from the SD Society for
looking for references.
Be well...
Fabian Szulanski


Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998
From: Phil Ferneau <pferneau@mail.hps-inc.com>
Reply-To: pferneau@hps-inc.com
Organization: High Performance Systems, Inc.
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Re: modeling chaotic systems

Greetings,

Yes, you can use STELLA to model chaotic systems. I've attached a
STELLA 5.0 model that demonstrates a simple chaotic system based on
systems research by Lorenz. The model is strictly deterministic, but
yields chaotic results depending on the initial parameters. Look at the
graphs to see the chaotic behavior unfold as the simulation runs.

You also may want to look up a special double issue of the SD Review
from several years back (~1992?) focusing on this topic.

Regards,
Phil Ferneau
High Performance Systems, Inc.
pferneau@hps-inc.com

Richard Turnock wrote:
>
> A K12 math teacher asked me "Can STELLA
> model chaotic systems?"
> Anyone run into this before?

Attachment converted: hd:lorenz.stm (STM2/STL2) (00004318)
Editor's Note: Please contact Phil directly if you would like to receive this model directly.


Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: rstanley@together.net (Rolfe Stanley)
Subject: transporting models

Could/would participants who send models pleasesend them only to the people
who request them...I just received a model of choatic systems which is
interesting but I did not request it and it took 3 to 4 minutes to
receive..thus clogging my system.when I had other things I had to do on the
internet Many thanks

Rolfe Stanley
Stanley Computer Center
Fletcher Extension


From: TFYY93A@prodigy.com (MR GEOFFREY F FOUNTAIN)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Stella

-- [ From: Geof Fountain * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] --

I am "attempting" to expose Stella to some of the local education
systems. I got the following response from an individual in the system:

"We did have a copy of Stella software, but chose not to review it. It
is considered a utility program rather than a K-12 instructional program
."

This response came from someone at the following location, who has some
kind of interface (??) with our local science department:

EvaluTech Contact
North Carolina Department of Public Instruction
evalutech@sreb.org

I have no experience in the evaluation of education curriculums, so I
don't thoroughly understand the response nor do I know how to respond
back in a way that might encourage this person to review Stella.

Any help or words of advice would be appreciated.


From: LucasRPS <LucasRPS@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998
To: TFYY93A@prodigy.com, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Stella

STELLA can be adapted to any area of the curriculum or course content. The
classroom simulations that are provided with the software are a great place to
start as they stengthen higher order thinking skills. The working models are
exceptional and cover a range of subject areas.

When students begin to understand the concepts of stocks, flows, and
converters you are offering them a language they can use to explain the world
around them and the interrelationships that impact change. I have made simple
working models with 4th graders and the amount of curriculum available for
upper grades (K-12) continues to be created at an increasing rate. Anyone
with questions should contact High Performance Inc. directly and give them the
opportunity to explain their product. They understand a constructivist
approach to learning and teaching.

Tim Lucas
Superintendent
Ho-Ho-Kus Public Schools
Ho-Ho-Kus, NJ


From: Dakar <Dakar@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998
To: TFYY93A@prodigy.com, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Stella

Geof,

In a message dated 01/25/98 5:20:59 PM, you wrote:
>I am "attempting" to expose STELLA to some of the local education
>systems. I got the following response from an individual in the system:
>
>"We did have a copy of STELLA software, but chose not to review it. It
>is considered a utility program rather than a K-12 instructional program
>.."
My question: What are your goals in introducing the local school system to
STELLA? Are you trying to sell the software or are you interested in
introducing a new instructional opportunity?

The reason your goal is important is to judge how determined you are to make
inroads into the local school system.

If you are interested in sales, you will probably not find a school system a
cost effective customer. To sell a significant number of copies of the any
unfamiliar software package, you would have to convince that many people that
the program will have a significant impact on improving instruction. Since
most teachers are wary of new software due to long learning curves, the
unavailability of pre made curriculum materials, and most supervisors are
former teachers who are too busy to truly "evaluate" software against actual
curriculum. Note that since it is very difficult to contact teachers when
they not with students, the task for a vendor is formidable.

If you are interested in introducing a new teaching tool, then you must
understand that only the most computer-addicted teachers, (such as myself)
will learn a new program to "explore" the "possibility" that it may improve
the quality of learning for his or her students. The most efficient way to
introduce the program is to develop a set of student activities which use the
program to teach toward some of the recent state or national standards.
Teachers are under a lot of pressure to teach to these standards and the
existence of student-ready curriculum will be a boon to these teachers. They
can learn to use the program with one or two inservice sessions as they meet
as a group to go through your student activities.

You could ally yourself with a computer-motivated math or science teacher
within your local system, (every system probably has one or two such nuts) to
explore the program and then develop the focused, effective, activities and
present them locally to his or her colleagues and on a state level at the
state teachers meetings after running through them with their classes.

>This response came from someone at the following location, who has some
>kind of interface (??) with our local science department:
>
>EvaluTech Contact
>North Carolina Department of Public Instruction
>evalutech@sreb.org
>
>I have no experience in the evaluation of education curriculums, so I
>don't thoroughly understand the response nor do I know how to respond
>back in a way that might encourage this person to review STELLA.
>
>Any help or words of advice would be appreciated.

Evaluation of curriculum is entirely different from evaluation of software
packages. As a physics teacher who has scoured the land for software for my
classes for many years, I learned about software more often from professional
journals and the Internet than from my supervisors, etc., in my school system.

The Maryland Virtual High School Project has assembled a set of STELLA models
and curriculum directed toward teaching our state's core science goals. Their
program is one of large scale, funded by the NSF, and is a model for
introducing computational methods into schools. You can find out more about
this by doing an web search on "Maryland Virtual High School".

Jay Fogleman
Howard County Technology Magnet Program
Energy Power Transportation Cluster
Long Reach High School
Columbia, MD


Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
From: Debra Lyneis <LyneisD@cle.tiac.net>
Subject: K-12 Curriculum

Dear K-12 teachers,

Last month I asked teachers to contact me if they had K-12 system dynamics
curriculum units which they would like to publish through the Gordon Brown
Fund. Several teachers responded with very diverse and interesting
curriculum ideas. Now that I am in the process of gathering the
information to write them up, I have another request, please.

We'd like to make these publications as useful as possible to other
teachers, so I'll ask for your input first. If you have taken curriculum
units from the Creative Learning Exchange, do you usually use the whole
unit or do you adapt bits and pieces of it to your own curriculum? Is it
helpful to have student assignment sheets and worksheets? What aspects of
the lessons are most useful to you, and where could we improve? Whether
you have used CLE materials or not, what would you like to see?

Thanks for any suggestions. These materials will be available through the
Creative Learning Exchange in the coming months.
Sincerely,
Deb Lyneis

LyneisD@cle.tiac.net


From: TFYY93A@prodigy.com (MR GEOFFREY F FOUNTAIN)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:15:54, -0500
To: k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Stella

-- [ From: Geof Fountain * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] --

Thank you Tim Lucas and Jay Fogleman for your responses to my inquiry.
I am passing on your suggestions. Below are answers to Jay's questions.

>>"We did have a copy of STELLA software, but chose not to review it.
It
>>is considered a utility program rather than a K-12 instructional
program"

>My question: What are your goals in introducing the local school
system to STELLA? Are you >trying to sell the software or are you
interested in introducing a new instructional opportunity?

I am on the local education foundation and am interested in introducing
systems dynamics and systems thinking as an instructional opportunity.

>If you are interested in introducing a new teaching tool, then you must
understand that only the most >computer-addicted teachers, (such as
myself) will learn a new program to "explore" the "possibility" >that it
may improve the quality of learning for his or her students. You could
ally yourself with a >computer-motivated math or science teacher within
your local system, (every system probably has >one or two such nuts) to
explore the program and then develop the focused, effective, activities
and >present them locally to his or her colleagues and on a state level
at the state teachers meetings >after running through them with their
classes.

I hope a local science teacher (similarly computer-addicted) will work
with Stella soon, with some support from myself and some colleagues that
have played around with ithink.

Geof Fountain


Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998
From: Bui Viet Hung <wra69721@ait.ac.th>
To: jdrake@alkali.otago.ac.nz
Cc: Sysstem-dynamics@world.std.com, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu, jforestr@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: stella models

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 jdrake@alkali.otago.ac.nz wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I am currently on sabbatical leave from the University of Vermont
> here at Otago University, in Dunedin, NZ, where I'll be working on P dynamics in a small
> estuary. While at UVM I worked on an interdisciplinary project that
> culminated in a substantial stella model of storage, transport and
> transformation is a river reach. However, estuaries are a new
> environment for me. Rather than try to re-invent a wheel, I am trying to
> ascertain if there are any existing estuarine models for P dynamics
> or estuarine models that might be readily adapted to this focus.
> Prof. Rolfe Stanley, a colleague at UVM has given me you email
> addresses as potential sources.
>
> Many thanks in advance for any assistance,
>
> John C. Drake
>
Hello.

I'm very interested with Stella models for applling estuarine
enviroments. I'm master student at AIT Thailand and doing thesis. My
thesis objects concern to spreading out of sediment at estuars. I'm using
one model, which different form Stella model.

Can you introduce some informations about the model.
Thank you verry much.

Bui Viet Hung
Wra69721@ait.ac.th


From: jdrake@alkali.otago.ac.nz
To: Sysstem-dynamics@world.std.com, k-12sd@sysdyn.mit.edu, jforestr@MIT.EDU
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998
Subject: stella models

Greetings,
I am currently on sabbatical leave from the University of Vermont
here at Otago University, in Dunedin, NZ, where I'll be working on P dynamics in a small
estuary. While at UVM I worked on an interdisciplinary project that
culminated in a substantial stella model of storage, transport and
transformation is a river reach. However, estuaries are a new
environment for me. Rather than try to re-invent a wheel, I am trying to
ascertain if there are any existing estuarine models for P dynamics
or estuarine models that might be readily adapted to this focus.
Prof. Rolfe Stanley, a colleague at UVM has given me you email
addresses as potential sources.

Many thanks in advance for any assistance,

John C. Drake


End of January